Useful information to add: First names, date of major achievement, substance/method/other nature of ban
Sure. Go for it, if that interests you.
Also date of positive test(s) maybe, or period of ABP anomalies.
And World Junior Champions, thanks Coevett.
And fast ladies, like sub-2:20 runners maybe.
As I said, work in progress.
You can go forth and back and you will hurt the concrete wall of 800m.
You will see the light of gene superiority of Africans.
Let push further the competition and give EA the same chances as the Norwegian kid and the American (with million $$ Nike contract) .. then you will hurt the concrete wall of the 1500m.
You hear me? I'm not black and far from being racist against the blue eyed European with long blond hair.
It's a disease that has spread to the whole area. I'd agree Kenya should be temporarily banned and good behavior/improvement needed to be demonstrated for reinstatement.
It all started with greedy/lying coaches/agents being complicit with doping because they profited financially from the dopers who won a lot of money. These coaches/agents were already exploiting poor athletes with limited financial knowledge for more money than they deserved to take.
The whole area would include Ethiopia, Uganda, Eritrea, Tanzania. So this disease, it HASN'T spread to the whole area.
It's a disease that has spread to the whole area. I'd agree Kenya should be temporarily banned and good behavior/improvement needed to be demonstrated for reinstatement.
It all started with greedy/lying coaches/agents being complicit with doping because they profited financially from the dopers who won a lot of money. These coaches/agents were already exploiting poor athletes with limited financial knowledge for more money than they deserved to take.
The whole area would include Ethiopia, Uganda, Eritrea, Tanzania. So this disease, it HASN'T spread to the whole area.
Lol. Eritrea has a population of under 4 million, yet I'm pretty sure that over the last five years, there have been around a dozen Eritreans busted (including 'European' Eritreans). There was another Epiopian banned the other day along with the Kenyan woman. Italian coaches and managers moved to Uganda as soon as testing was introduced to Kenya, and then suddenly you had Cheptegai and Kiplimo, and for a brief while, the 1500m Mussagala looking like he was a gold medal threat in his late twenties.
Sure it's a great idea -- I think if someone is going to make the effort, it just needs a little more context.
What would even be better are the names of the suppliers and exploiters.
Yes. Do the same for your context-free lists of 5 fastest Africans and Non-Africans, plus as you said above when they doped how and when they ran their fastest times.
I think what a lot of the 'ban all Kenyan' calls don't consider are the (dis)incentives that creates. I've not seen anything that convinces me that this is state sponsored in the same way that Russia, or China I suspect, were organising doping via state apparatus. All we've seen is better and more testing from Kenyan authorities, leading to more Kenyans being caught.
It's a poor country, one of it's main flexes on the world stage is the huge amount of athletes they send to the top of the sport. A sport where lots of people dope. I can see why there are more incentives for an athlete from a poorer country, with fewer alternatives to dope - but I think there's probably only slightly more draw for a top Kenyan than a top American, or European, towards doping - and I think you can see the way that for e.g. Houlihan or Jade Jones in the UK were treated around their bans by the national bodies suggests a laxness to doping too. Banning a country because it's catching dopers nudges AD bodies, and sports arms of various governments towards thinking 'if we start catching too many dopers will we be banned too?'. I think overall it's far more convoluted than a simple 'ban these countries'.
Sure it's a great idea -- I think if someone is going to make the effort, it just needs a little more context.
What would even be better are the names of the suppliers and exploiters.
Yes. Do the same for your context-free lists of 5 fastest Africans and Non-Africans, plus as you said above when they doped how and when they ran their fastest times.
Starting a thread concluding with a question "why so few? and then by so little?" was an implicit appeal to everyone to provide any and all such relevant doping and non-doping context -- crowdsourcing among the most informed.
There were FIVE Kenyans suspended today, including Edward Zakayo, but this msg board just yawns now and moves on, preferring to get 'excited' about whether Wanyonyi will 'embarass' Hocker and Jakob this year.
This is a form of selection bias. We only see the busts for drugs that are somewhat easy to detect. We don't see busts of drugs that are difficult to detect or not tested for.
Also, altitude tents are legal, but who can afford to buy them and spend 16 hours a day inside? Living at moderate altitude might reduce that time to 10 to 14 hours, but that's still a lot.
Here is the complete updated, including today's banned world record holder Kandie:
2nd update (Kipkorir, 2:04:53 in late 2023, won Frankfurt, positive test between winning Sidney in September and Taipei marathon in December 2024), and Kandie, 4th banned world record holder from Kenya since 2019: Kenyan distance stars banned since the AIU started testing: World Record setters: Kiptum 2019, Kipsang 2020, Kipruto 2024, Kandie 2025 Olympic champs: Sumgong 2017, Kiprop 2017 World champs: Manangoi 2020 Marathon Majors winners: Chepchirchir 2019, Wanjiru 2019, Cherono 2022, Kipyokei 2022 Commonwealth champs: Chepkirui 2019 African champs: Kipkemoi 2019, Aprot 2022 Sub 27 runners: Renju 2022, Kwemoi 2024, Langat 2024 Sub 59 runners: Kitwara 2019, Korio 2022, Kisorio 2022 Sub 2:06 runners: Gachaga 2022, Kacheran 2022, Kipserem 2022, Ekiru 2023, Kipyego 2024, Belet 2024, Kipkorir 2025 Sub 30 female runners: Anyango 2024
I think what a lot of the 'ban all Kenyan' calls don't consider are the (dis)incentives that creates. I've not seen anything that convinces me that this is state sponsored in the same way that Russia, or China I suspect, were organising doping via state apparatus. All we've seen is better and more testing from Kenyan authorities, leading to more Kenyans being caught.
It's a poor country, one of it's main flexes on the world stage is the huge amount of athletes they send to the top of the sport. A sport where lots of people dope. I can see why there are more incentives for an athlete from a poorer country, with fewer alternatives to dope - but I think there's probably only slightly more draw for a top Kenyan than a top American, or European, towards doping - and I think you can see the way that for e.g. Houlihan or Jade Jones in the UK were treated around their bans by the national bodies suggests a laxness to doping too. Banning a country because it's catching dopers nudges AD bodies, and sports arms of various governments towards thinking 'if we start catching too many dopers will we be banned too?'. I think overall it's far more convoluted than a simple 'ban these countries'.
Being a "poor" country doesn't give it's citizens the right to cheat in athletics.
Thank you AIU. Keep up the good work. Ethiopia next - please.
Seb Coe - do the right thing and ban Kenya. Send a message loud and clear that systemic doping has far reaching consequence.
The enablers… coaches, agents to these athletes that get busted need to go down in shame and be put in jail. The drug dealers, pharmacists that enable need to put in jail. The problem is these people are mafia and threaten the athletes their family etc.
If there is indeed mafia behavior then a national ban might make sense, but the athletes should be able to leave the country and compete.
I only just saw the news - now I understand why Hoady is having a nervous breakdown in another thread.
I remember a couple of years ago I compiled a list of the 10 fastest Kenyan half-marathoners between 2017 and 2021 or something, showing how many had been busted (at least 3 or 4) and then either Rekbot or ThoughtsLeader (if they are different people) responded with a list of the 2020-2023 top list - which obviously didn't have as many busted names yet, as though it was some kind of proof that I was cherry picking my date range.
I found the ThoughtLeader post. He replied to me with a list of the top 15 fastest Kenyan half-marathoners since 2020 and asked me how many had been busted.
Well the number 1 was busted today, and the number 2 was busted last year.