Amazing to me that anyone can accept a sub-29:00 (or sub-29:40) woman as not doped, unless you think that woman is actually a man.
I feel like a freak female talent could run 29;30. Especially in a completely flat road race paced the entire way by male pacers and with the best pogo shoes.
+1
Currently the WR stands at 28:46. Doping might give you 40 - 60 seconds over 10K, so I can see clean 29:26 or at least clean 29:46 runners, give or take.
Currently the WR stands at 28:46. Doping might give you 40 - 60 seconds over 10K, so I can see clean 29:26 or at least clean 29:46 runners, give or take.
Maybe for a man, but more than a minute for a woman taking EPO AND testosterone.
Currently the WR stands at 28:46. Doping might give you 40 - 60 seconds over 10K, so I can see clean 29:26 or at least clean 29:46 runners, give or take.
Maybe for a man, but more than a minute for a woman taking EPO AND testosterone.
I’d agree. Let’s note Achol’s breakthrough is pretty easy to pinpoint.
Up until late May last year she was pretty much a 15:20/32-min athlete and not that young. Imagine there might be some room to gain with better opportunities but not a ton.
Fast forward to late-fall and winter and she has gone from D-team Kenyan to a fringe A-lister with a 30:01 10KM in Lille. That continued with the 28:57 and a good though slowly worsening XC campaign including 4th at World XC. The results kept getting worse until she wasn’t close to making the Kenyan 10K team, which had women who she had been very competitive with just a couple months before. She was relegated to not even winning layups like Peachtree, BAA 5K to Boilermaker. Would be interesting if it was because after Valencia they started testing her and the microdosing began (though obviously she got caught anyway).
Yes !!!! Keep the busts coming in as it is the most entertaining part of elite distance running. But also please ban Kenya already as too much money is being stolen from the sport and it is never being recuperated. For example, is this athlete plus her coach and manager going to pay back what they have been stealing from the sport? Put the testing resources towards targeting Ethiopia and see more drugs busts to the point where they have to banned too.
its unfair to say ban kenya cause its not the whole of Kenya thats doping
By this logic itd only be fair to ban all the other counties in the top 10 too and then finally the Serbians can win the races
This post was edited 59 seconds after it was posted.
We should look at her coach and training group; coached by Ken Rotich in Iten. I believe Rotich is a former Kenyan runner of decent calibre (63 HM) and now a citizen of Kazakhstan. He has also coached Norah Jeruto and Grace Loibach Nawowuna, the former who was briefly provisionally suspended and the latter who pretty much came out out nowhere to make the '23 WXC team. He also coached banned athletes Caroline Kipkirui of Kazakhstan and Betty Chelangat (WU20 champ - KEN). He also seems to be connected with Kelvin Loti and Brian Komen who have had quick rises to world class times.
Now I'm not going to accuse him of administering drugs to all the athletes in the group, because by the looks if things it's a huge group he oversees in Iten and I don't think he's the only coach for many of the athletes there, however when you see a group like this (similar to Rosa Kapsabet group) it raises the suspicion of the athletes in it and the coaching/management behind it. I think groups like this should be specifically looked into by ADAK/AIU
We should look at her coach and training group; coached by Ken Rotich in Iten. I believe Rotich is a former Kenyan runner of decent calibre (63 HM) and now a citizen of Kazakhstan. He has also coached Norah Jeruto and Grace Loibach Nawowuna, the former who was briefly provisionally suspended and the latter who pretty much came out out nowhere to make the '23 WXC team. He also coached banned athletes Caroline Kipkirui of Kazakhstan and Betty Chelangat (WU20 champ - KEN). He also seems to be connected with Kelvin Loti and Brian Komen who have had quick rises to world class times.
Now I'm not going to accuse him of administering drugs to all the athletes in the group, because by the looks if things it's a huge group he oversees in Iten and I don't think he's the only coach for many of the athletes there, however when you see a group like this (similar to Rosa Kapsabet group) it raises the suspicion of the athletes in it and the coaching/management behind it. I think groups like this should be specifically looked into by ADAK/AIU
Great post. I don't understand why, when these athletes are busted, the most basic information about their situation is ALWAYS left out.
Who is their coach? Who is their agent? Who are the sponsors? Training partners?
None of this has to be accusatory, but it should be documented. I tried searching for her agent, I expected to find it on the World Athletics website, but I must be missing something.
You would think the Letsruns/Citius Mags of the world would track this information, put it into a public database. That way, when I'm watching the Chicago marathon, and I see that that 5 of the top 10 athletes are all from the same agent with dozens of busted athletes, I know the truth about what I am watching.
We should look at her coach and training group; coached by Ken Rotich in Iten. I believe Rotich is a former Kenyan runner of decent calibre (63 HM) and now a citizen of Kazakhstan. He has also coached Norah Jeruto and Grace Loibach Nawowuna, the former who was briefly provisionally suspended and the latter who pretty much came out out nowhere to make the '23 WXC team. He also coached banned athletes Caroline Kipkirui of Kazakhstan and Betty Chelangat (WU20 champ - KEN). He also seems to be connected with Kelvin Loti and Brian Komen who have had quick rises to world class times.
Now I'm not going to accuse him of administering drugs to all the athletes in the group, because by the looks if things it's a huge group he oversees in Iten and I don't think he's the only coach for many of the athletes there, however when you see a group like this (similar to Rosa Kapsabet group) it raises the suspicion of the athletes in it and the coaching/management behind it. I think groups like this should be specifically looked into by ADAK/AIU
Great post. I don't understand why, when these athletes are busted, the most basic information about their situation is ALWAYS left out.
Who is their coach? Who is their agent? Who are the sponsors? Training partners?
None of this has to be accusatory, but it should be documented. I tried searching for her agent, I expected to find it on the World Athletics website, but I must be missing something.
You would think the Letsruns/Citius Mags of the world would track this information, put it into a public database. That way, when I'm watching the Chicago marathon, and I see that that 5 of the top 10 athletes are all from the same agent with dozens of busted athletes, I know the truth about what I am watching.
I do think she is Elite Running Team, which is part of Hussein Makke’s management (based in US). I do think that it’s good when Jon Gault has followed up in past. Even if it Demadonna completely throwing athletes under the bus, it’s instructive. In general, it’s fair to say the trend of late-blooming Kenyans especially on the roads should be looked at with heavy suspicion. A lot of them are getting busted within a year of their first high-level results.
The AIU also tests a ton in Ethiopia yet they have nowhere near the same amount of positives
When AIU testers arrive in Ethiopia, there's tip offs. Also, doping is way more professional in Ethiopia. But they turned up at the Olympics clean and won nothing with the exception of a last minute ring-in marathoner! Hmmm 🤔
I do think she is Elite Running Team, which is part of Hussein Makke’s management (based in US). I do think that it’s good when Jon Gault has followed up in past. Even if it Demadonna completely throwing athletes under the bus, it’s instructive. In general, it’s fair to say the trend of late-blooming Kenyans especially on the roads should be looked at with heavy suspicion. A lot of them are getting busted within a year of their first high-level results.
As I mentioned on another thread, the risk/reward ratio has made it a no-brainer for them to do this. They really have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Truth.
When AIU testers arrive in Ethiopia, there's tip offs. Also, doping is way more professional in Ethiopia. But they turned up at the Olympics clean and won nothing with the exception of a last minute ring-in marathoner! Hmmm 🤔
Also, these testers are typically not native Africans, often white, and will stick out like a sore thumb in a predominantly black African country as soon as they step off the plane. They're not going to be treated very well to put it lightly. Few are going to be accommodating with their requests or needs, especially if they know they're there to try and test/bust native athletes, and there's a known nationwide culture of accepted rampant doping. They'll be lucky to get a single test done and fly out of there without being robbed.
Also, these testers are typically not native Africans, often white, and will stick out like a sore thumb in a predominantly black African country as soon as they step off the plane. They're not going to be treated very well to put it lightly. Few are going to be accommodating with their requests or needs, especially if they know they're there to try and test/bust native athletes, and there's a known nationwide culture of accepted rampant doping. They'll be lucky to get a single test done and fly out of there without being robbed.
It feels like you are making stuff up. They are busting athletes left and right and recording a ton of tests in Kenya. There’s been ample comments by the AIU on testing in Kenya and I haven’t heard this mentioned. You’re acting like Iten, Eldoret and Kaptagat are like Jamaica Queens for the NYPD during the crack crisis.
We should look at her coach and training group; coached by Ken Rotich in Iten. I believe Rotich is a former Kenyan runner of decent calibre (63 HM) and now a citizen of Kazakhstan. He has also coached Norah Jeruto and Grace Loibach Nawowuna, the former who was briefly provisionally suspended and the latter who pretty much came out out nowhere to make the '23 WXC team. He also coached banned athletes Caroline Kipkirui of Kazakhstan and Betty Chelangat (WU20 champ - KEN). He also seems to be connected with Kelvin Loti and Brian Komen who have had quick rises to world class times.
Now I'm not going to accuse him of administering drugs to all the athletes in the group, because by the looks if things it's a huge group he oversees in Iten and I don't think he's the only coach for many of the athletes there, however when you see a group like this (similar to Rosa Kapsabet group) it raises the suspicion of the athletes in it and the coaching/management behind it. I think groups like this should be specifically looked into by ADAK/AIU
Honestly, you have accused him/Rotich either directly or indirectly as the reason behind the sudden rise in certain athletes or the positives now being exposed.
I do think she is Elite Running Team, which is part of Hussein Makke’s management (based in US). I do think that it’s good when Jon Gault has followed up in past. Even if it Demadonna completely throwing athletes under the bus, it’s instructive. In general, it’s fair to say the trend of late-blooming Kenyans especially on the roads should be looked at with heavy suspicion. A lot of them are getting busted within a year of their first high-level results.
As I mentioned on another thread, the risk/reward ratio has made it a no-brainer for them to do this. They really have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Truth.
Definitely. I would probably done the same. It's all about $$$. I'm sure there is a widespread paranoia among their runners because if you show up without the good stuff and someone else did, you go home empty handed. What the race organizers need to do is payout only 30% of the prize after the race. Then spread out the rest of the prize money over next 3 years. This is one way to remove short term lottery mentality.
Currently the WR stands at 28:46. Doping might give you 40 - 60 seconds over 10K, so I can see clean 29:26 or at least clean 29:46 runners, give or take.
Maybe for a man, but more than a minute for a woman taking EPO AND testosterone.
Testosterone is potent stuff for women. I wouldn't be surprised it's well north of 2 minutes. I mean, the one busted had a previous PR of 32 mins on the track just last year. And that's 32:51, not 32:01. It's a joke.
I feel like a freak female talent could run 29;30. Especially in a completely flat road race paced the entire way by male pacers and with the best pogo shoes.
+1
Currently the WR stands at 28:46. Doping might give you 40 - 60 seconds over 10K, so I can see clean 29:26 or at least clean 29:46 runners, give or take.
40-60 seconds is a bit much. I relieve Grant Fisher is clean and I don’t see him running sub-25:50, were he to dope.
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