The NCAA could benefit from tighter age regulations, but let's be realistic; the NCAA is in no position to add any rules or regulations right now...if anything, eligibility rules will only get looser.
Running DI is going to get harder. It will be older and more international. If an athlete is serious about the sport, and wants to be a scholarship level DI runner, they should really consider a gap year or some sort of eligibility stop like a mission where they can train and not burn clock.
If that is not what they want (or it doesn't fit the academic timeline) that is okay too...just go to a smaller DI or DII school and be more traditional. Accept the fact that collegiate athletics at the highest level is only nominally about school. It is virtually professional in most every way.
Parker Wolfe and Ethan Strand might disagree.
I never said it was impossible, there are examples of guys who started as red shirt or even true freshmen having success at the P5 level.
But it is getting very difficult. More Americans would be in the picture if they allowed themselves to get older and stronger.
The NCAA is not an age graded level of comp, and never will be. Most will have to adapt to the professional nature or run at the more collegiate DII/NAIA/DIII level.
As fans of running, the NCAA will provide an increasingly competitive product to view!
Can anyone explain to me why it's a bad thing to have international athletes on your team?
The NCAA exists in the United States yes, but it isn't the same thing as Team USA. Who said you can't recruit internationally? Why don't more teams open up their pool to young college hopefuls who want to compete in another country? Why is that a short cut, exactly?
A lot of the focus is on Kenyans. International runners come from European countries, Australia and Canada too. If a team had all European athletes, would you consider that cheating?
You realize that Kenyan NCAA runners aren't prepackaged running robots right? They are human, they have to adjust to being in a different country, the culture, the norms, homesickness, American classes. It's not a short cut to success. They still have to train, work hard, stay motivated to succeed. You have to have tremendous character to succeed in another country. Kenyan and Ethiopian internationals are waaay more impressive because of that.
The international athletes at my school were homesick all the time. They counted down the days until they could go home. It's hard.
It doesn't bother me that teams have international athletes. All are welcome here. There are different ways to build a team.
domonique scott was normal college-aged from South Africa
also we all know there is difference betw an 18 South African and a 24+ year old from Kenya that has been in Kenyan training camp since age 16 but wasnt quite making in terms of making a living.
These schools that recruit the Kenyans pay for it all .... their legal fees and visas, their international flights, spending money then scholarships plus NIL money....
There is a difference between say an 18 yr old Irish freshman and a 24+year old Kenyan freshman
If you want to say you are okay with white runners from other countries but not African runners, just say that.
Because you're making a ridiculous assumption that every Kenyan recruit is egregiously overage too. You just want to create the image that something is "unfair" that Kenyan runners run in the NCAA when it's not.
The collegiate record in the 800m is held by Micheal Saruni, age 22 at the time, just barely faster than the prior record set by 19 year old Donovan Brazier.
The collegiate record in the 1500m is held by Eliud Kipsang, who 24 at the time. Prior to that Yared Nuguse had the record at age 21, and the high school record was faster than that.
The collegiate records in the 5000m and 10000m are held by Nico Young, age 21 at the time.
The steeplechase is of course still held by Henry Rono, who was 26...
I ran in the early 90s and this was a bigger issue back then because older Kenyans were handing our ass to us (and our coaches were salty about Rono - my HS coach ran 'against' him). It was less about the age and more about the weak training we were doing. American kids are fast AF now and hold their own just fine. A high schooler ran 13:25 last year and Kessler skipped NCAA altogether when his PR was faster than the collegiate record.
I used to think the age thing was unfair but now I think it keeps the NCAA level competition where it needs to be; America got serious and leveled up since the 90s, and now have plenty of young people who can compete. It's showing in our medal counts.
Wow! If you think this is about race you are crazy. Nice assumption though. Many of these Kenyans are 25-28 years old. Pay attention. Those are the ones I have a problem with. - and Casey Clinger. Many of these men and women were pro and making money road racing. I don’t blame the Kenyans. I blame the ncaa and the pathetic coaches that have made the choice to go that direction. The athletes are just doing what they can to earn more like any one of us would. The lazy ncaa and compliance has ruined college athletics.
Wow! If you think this is about race you are crazy. Nice assumption though. Many of these Kenyans are 25-28 years old. Pay attention. Those are the ones I have a problem with. - and Casey Clinger. Many of these men and women were pro and making money road racing. I don’t blame the Kenyans. I blame the ncaa and the pathetic coaches that have made the choice to go that direction. The athletes are just doing what they can to earn more like any one of us would. The lazy ncaa and compliance has ruined college athletics.
The collegiate record in the 800m is held by Micheal Saruni, age 22 at the time, just barely faster than the prior record set by 19 year old Donovan Brazier.
The collegiate record in the 1500m is held by Eliud Kipsang, who 24 at the time. Prior to that Yared Nuguse had the record at age 21, and the high school record was faster than that.
The collegiate records in the 5000m and 10000m are held by Nico Young, age 21 at the time.
The steeplechase is of course still held by Henry Rono, who was 26...
I ran in the early 90s and this was a bigger issue back then because older Kenyans were handing our ass to us (and our coaches were salty about Rono - my HS coach ran 'against' him). It was less about the age and more about the weak training we were doing. American kids are fast AF now and hold their own just fine. A high schooler ran 13:25 last year and Kessler skipped NCAA altogether when his PR was faster than the collegiate record.
I used to think the age thing was unfair but now I think it keeps the NCAA level competition where it needs to be; America got serious and leveled up since the 90s, and now have plenty of young people who can compete. It's showing in our medal counts.
If the NCAA wants to put age restrictions on competitors I am perfectly fine with that.
If we want to go full nationalist and say only american citizens can compete in the NCAA that would be weird but I guess they can do it if they want.
But as long as the rules are what they are, people need to stop whining and train the teams they have.
The collegiate record in the 800m is held by Micheal Saruni, age 22 at the time, just barely faster than the prior record set by 19 year old Donovan Brazier.
The collegiate record in the 1500m is held by Eliud Kipsang, who 24 at the time. Prior to that Yared Nuguse had the record at age 21, and the high school record was faster than that.
The collegiate records in the 5000m and 10000m are held by Nico Young, age 21 at the time.
The steeplechase is of course still held by Henry Rono, who was 26...
I ran in the early 90s and this was a bigger issue back then because older Kenyans were handing our ass to us (and our coaches were salty about Rono - my HS coach ran 'against' him). It was less about the age and more about the weak training we were doing. American kids are fast AF now and hold their own just fine. A high schooler ran 13:25 last year and Kessler skipped NCAA altogether when his PR was faster than the collegiate record.
I used to think the age thing was unfair but now I think it keeps the NCAA level competition where it needs to be; America got serious and leveled up since the 90s, and now have plenty of young people who can compete. It's showing in our medal counts.
If the NCAA wants to put age restrictions on competitors I am perfectly fine with that.
If we want to go full nationalist and say only american citizens can compete in the NCAA that would be weird but I guess they can do it if they want.
But as long as the rules are what they are, people need to stop whining and train the teams they have.
There is nothing "weird" about wanting the NATIONAL Collegiate Athletic Accociation to primarily serve the interests of American kids and their parents. The scholarships given to foreign athletes are a generous gift from the American taxpayer, they are not an entitlement. This gift has been abused by laugable age cheating, doping, and most importantly American kids having their opportunities stolen from them, and as such we are well within our rights to retract it. The NCAA was not intended to be, is not, and ought not to be a free Olympic training program for the third world.
If the NCAA wants to put age restrictions on competitors I am perfectly fine with that.
If we want to go full nationalist and say only american citizens can compete in the NCAA that would be weird but I guess they can do it if they want.
But as long as the rules are what they are, people need to stop whining and train the teams they have.
There is nothing "weird" about wanting the NATIONAL Collegiate Athletic Accociation to primarily serve the interests of American kids and their parents. The scholarships given to foreign athletes are a generous gift from the American taxpayer, they are not an entitlement. This gift has been abused by laugable age cheating, doping, and most importantly American kids having their opportunities stolen from them, and as such we are well within our rights to retract it. The NCAA was not intended to be, is not, and ought not to be a free Olympic training program for the third world.
It's not age cheating if there aren't age limits. Americans dope too. Americans don't have opportunities "stolen" from them, they are outdone by a more talented and hardworking international.
Like I said, I am for age limits. I do think it would be bizarre if suddenly the NCAA decided to only grant competition to american citizens, but they can do it. If they did those things then you can consider scholarships "stolen" and you can consider it cheating. But until they do, everyone is playing by the rules.
There is nothing "weird" about wanting the NATIONAL Collegiate Athletic Accociation to primarily serve the interests of American kids and their parents. The scholarships given to foreign athletes are a generous gift from the American taxpayer, they are not an entitlement. This gift has been abused by laugable age cheating, doping, and most importantly American kids having their opportunities stolen from them, and as such we are well within our rights to retract it. The NCAA was not intended to be, is not, and ought not to be a free Olympic training program for the third world.
It's not age cheating if there aren't age limits. Americans dope too. Americans don't have opportunities "stolen" from them, they are outdone by a more talented and hardworking international.
Like I said, I am for age limits. I do think it would be bizarre if suddenly the NCAA decided to only grant competition to american citizens, but they can do it. If they did those things then you can consider scholarships "stolen" and you can consider it cheating. But until they do, everyone is playing by the rules.
There have been two major NCAA distance athletes convicted of doping this year, and neither one of them are Americans. The country we are generally referring to here is Kenya, which has a systemic doping problem that is orders of magnitude greater than anything in the United States. I follow the sport closely, and besides Houlihan, I can honestly not name a notable American distance runner convicted of doping in the last five years.
Secondly, no one is convinced by your "Americans just need to work harder routine" 1. It's our country and we get to make the rules. I don't frankly care if the foreigners do work harder, they can work hard on their own country on their own dime. 2. Secondly, that is besides the point because it is well known these athletes have a 7-8 year age advantage and have been living as pro athletes for much of their adult life. In a sport like distance running, no amount of bootstrapping can overcome that.
And regarding "playing by the rules", there was once a time when sports were a game of gentlemanly honor. Yes, you can talk during your opponents golf swing. Yes, you can draft behind someone for 26 miles for someone in a marathon while clipping their heels. And yes, you can (currently) field an entire team of Keyans at the NCAA championship. However, doing all of these things makes you a man of low character and integrity.
And finally, I will continue to regard these scholarships as stolen because that is an accurate descriptor the current situation American high school kids are facing.
It's not age cheating if there aren't age limits. Americans dope too. Americans don't have opportunities "stolen" from them, they are outdone by a more talented and hardworking international.
Like I said, I am for age limits. I do think it would be bizarre if suddenly the NCAA decided to only grant competition to american citizens, but they can do it. If they did those things then you can consider scholarships "stolen" and you can consider it cheating. But until they do, everyone is playing by the rules.
There have been two major NCAA distance athletes convicted of doping this year, and neither one of them are Americans. The country we are generally referring to here is Kenya, which has a systemic doping problem that is orders of magnitude greater than anything in the United States. I follow the sport closely, and besides Houlihan, I can honestly not name a notable American distance runner convicted of doping in the last five years.
Secondly, no one is convinced by your "Americans just need to work harder routine" 1. It's our country and we get to make the rules. I don't frankly care if the foreigners do work harder, they can work hard on their own country on their own dime. 2. Secondly, that is besides the point because it is well known these athletes have a 7-8 year age advantage and have been living as pro athletes for much of their adult life. In a sport like distance running, no amount of bootstrapping can overcome that.
And regarding "playing by the rules", there was once a time when sports were a game of gentlemanly honor. Yes, you can talk during your opponents golf swing. Yes, you can draft behind someone for 26 miles for someone in a marathon while clipping their heels. And yes, you can (currently) field an entire team of Keyans at the NCAA championship. However, doing all of these things makes you a man of low character and integrity.
And finally, I will continue to regard these scholarships as stolen because that is an accurate descriptor the current situation American high school kids are facing.
you don't happen to live in Springfield Ohio do you?
domonique scott was normal college-aged from South Africa
also we all know there is difference betw an 18 South African and a 24+ year old from Kenya that has been in Kenyan training camp since age 16 but wasnt quite making in terms of making a living.
These schools that recruit the Kenyans pay for it all .... their legal fees and visas, their international flights, spending money then scholarships plus NIL money....
There is a difference between say an 18 yr old Irish freshman and a 24+year old Kenyan freshman
He says in the video that its an unfair challenge for these teenagers to get high level exposure in the NCAA. It's not whining, it's true. He doesn't say "it's unfair that it's going to be hard to win team titles now"
Also as far as BYU is concerned, Clinger is a great example. It is absolutely nuts that a guy who raced NCAAs in 2017 will again in 2024. However, as a true freshman in 2017 the guy was 24th at NCAAs. BYU is really good at recruiting and developing the best guys in the country regardless of their mission trips
This is classic coach speak. Have you ever heard a coach say “hey we have all of these advantages over the competition!!! Isn’t our set up great?”
No, every coach has an we are against the odds team. We must overcome these other programs with all of these advantages!
What is ole Lance supposed to say? We have a really young team, might get our butts kicked.
but yes Arkansas has an indoor track, outdoor track, amazing XC course, SEC funding, the most recognizable brand in college track, Years of international athletes, funny money like crazy but they might not win the SEC this time
You have no idea how this program was built. John McDonnell legally immigrated from Ireland and founded the greatest Track and Field program in D1 history. Think back to 1973. Oh, you can’t because you are a 20 someone who has no history. If you want to know the story, keep reading. if not, then you should, you know….
John couldn’t recruit US athletes as they didn’t have a clue what or who Arkansas was. He tapped his native Ireland for the initial group. that included 17 year old Niall, my old roommate (RIP). At the time I was a young distance runner from Tulsa Oklahoma. Niall was an 800 and 1500 meter runner who ran great XC. Niall ran in the 1976 Olympics for Ireland and he ran3:55 for the mile indoors in 1977. He was 7th in the 1976 NCAA XC Championship.
John built the program on great athletes whom he recruited from near and far. There was never under the table stuff. I was a lowly 4:20 miler in HS who ended up with 4 All American certs under John. He engineered 42 national championships, half of which were achieved with really crappy facilities.Today, the facilities and the history don’t exist without him.
There is so much more to the Arkansas story that you will never know. I applaud Lance Harter in this thread. He is another great coach who learned from John.
The NCAA could benefit from tighter age regulations, but let's be realistic; the NCAA is in no position to add any rules or regulations right now...if anything, eligibility rules will only get looser.
Running DI is going to get harder. It will be older and more international. If an athlete is serious about the sport, and wants to be a scholarship level DI runner, they should really consider a gap year or some sort of eligibility stop like a mission where they can train and not burn clock.
If that is not what they want (or it doesn't fit the academic timeline) that is okay too...just go to a smaller DI or DII school and be more traditional. Accept the fact that collegiate athletics at the highest level is only nominally about school. It is virtually professional in most every way.
Parker Wolfe and Ethan Strand might disagree.
thank you for your statistically significant sample size
domonique scott was normal college-aged from South Africa
also we all know there is difference betw an 18 South African and a 24+ year old from Kenya that has been in Kenyan training camp since age 16 but wasnt quite making in terms of making a living.
These schools that recruit the Kenyans pay for it all .... their legal fees and visas, their international flights, spending money then scholarships plus NIL money....
There is a difference between say an 18 yr old Irish freshman and a 24+year old Kenyan freshman
There is: 6 years and a disturbingly lack of melanin...
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