The real head-scratcher for me is Quincy Wilson. With his eyes-in-the-skies, low floppy hands and bobbing form, he looks kind of like a caricature (maybe of Quincy Hall?). Yet he is already a high school GOAT.
If you were to be entrusted with him as a coach, do you work to change any of it? He is certainly young enough to adapt. Just look at Nico Young 2.0.
The real head-scratcher for me is Quincy Wilson. With his eyes-in-the-skies, low floppy hands and bobbing form, he looks kind of like a caricature (maybe of Quincy Hall?). Yet he is already a high school GOAT.
If you were to be entrusted with him as a coach, do you work to change any of it? He is certainly young enough to adapt. Just look at Nico Young 2.0.
his "low floppy hands and bobbing form" are a feature, not a fault (nijel amos was great at this, despite criticism for "bad form")
i wouldn't directly mess with his running form at all
indirectly though, yeah i'd work to help him better understand how the head leads the bodies movement (using walking drills/exercises), which over time would likely lead to him not lifting his chin so much when he's at his limit
The real head-scratcher for me is Quincy Wilson. With his eyes-in-the-skies, low floppy hands and bobbing form, he looks kind of like a caricature (maybe of Quincy Hall?). Yet he is already a high school GOAT.
If you were to be entrusted with him as a coach, do you work to change any of it? He is certainly young enough to adapt. Just look at Nico Young 2.0.
It is awkward, but he also is not done growing and maturing. 'Fixing' his form now adds the potential for disaster in the future.
Drew Bosely comes to mind simply because Mike Smith said his mechanics are essentially why he has been AWOL. If their form is detrimental to their running via injury, then a fix is needed.
At the professional level, I find a hard argument to 'fix' form. These aren't JV HSers- Cheserek looks like a duckfooted fool, but is undoubtedly the greatest NCAA athlete ever. Cheriyout's lean is otherwordly, but are you fixing that guy?
Running form and running economy are to completely different things. Running form is aesthetics were as running economy is achieved through relaxation and natural pattern of motion.
Running form and running economy are to completely different things. Running form is aesthetics were as running economy is achieved through relaxation and natural pattern of motion.
running economy is achieved through having a lot of slow twitch muscle fibers which are efficient at processing oxygen
The real head-scratcher for me is Quincy Wilson. With his eyes-in-the-skies, low floppy hands and bobbing form, he looks kind of like a caricature (maybe of Quincy Hall?). Yet he is already a high school GOAT.
If you were to be entrusted with him as a coach, do you work to change any of it? He is certainly young enough to adapt. Just look at Nico Young 2.0.
It is awkward, but he also is not done growing and maturing. 'Fixing' his form now adds the potential for disaster in the future.
Drew Bosely comes to mind simply because Mike Smith said his mechanics are essentially why he has been AWOL. If their form is detrimental to their running via injury, then a fix is needed.
At the professional level, I find a hard argument to 'fix' form. These aren't JV HSers- Cheserek looks like a duckfooted fool, but is undoubtedly the greatest NCAA athlete ever. Cheriyout's lean is otherwordly, but are you fixing that guy?
Which begs the question: did Ches' form put an early cap on his career performance, compared to someone like say Bernard Lagat? These are hypotheticals that are difficult to sort
I think I would start by restating the question. You should ask
"if you think running efficiency matters, who would say stands to benefit most?
Problem is that simple observations are very misleading. There have been countless runners who "look to be running ugly" when in fact they are running efficiently for their particular body construct.
There is natural running form and effective running form. A few are blessed with their natural running form being their effective running form. You have to find your effective running form. When you are clicking along, irregardless of fitness, you know you have found your effective running form.
You KNOW when it is working; you know when it is not.
yes I think the truth lies between what you are saying and OP. Clearly when i coach MS kids, they need to dial in their flailing arms for example, and they do "fix" them, but that may be development more than me fixing their arms...they are still growing. But I suspect there is an optimal motion for efficiency, there is just a trade off for trying to fit a square peg in round hole. Right now our best runner (extremely good) who is beating everyone is what most of you would call a heel runner and this choppy gait with seemingly no push off. So...I dont know...does she have a 85 VO2? Im not sure, but its fascinating for sure watching her destroy everyone. Im reluctant to start fixing this ad that. Other than maybe tiny adjustments to an arm swing or something.
There is natural running form and effective running form. A few are blessed with their natural running form being their effective running form. You have to find your effective running form. When you are clicking along, irregardless of fitness, you know you have found your effective running form.
You KNOW when it is working; you know when it is not.
yes I think the truth lies between what you are saying and OP. Clearly when i coach MS kids, they need to dial in their flailing arms for example, and they do "fix" them, but that may be development more than me fixing their arms...they are still growing. But I suspect there is an optimal motion for efficiency, there is just a trade off for trying to fit a square peg in round hole. Right now our best runner (extremely good) who is beating everyone is what most of you would call a heel runner and this choppy gait with seemingly no push off. So...I dont know...does she have a 85 VO2? Im not sure, but its fascinating for sure watching her destroy everyone. Im reluctant to start fixing this ad that. Other than maybe tiny adjustments to an arm swing or something.
Who are you referring to?? The best female runner is arguably Faith Kipyegon (certainly in the running for being at the very top), and she has flawless form. Nikki Hiltz might currently be the best American mid-distance, and I would never consider her to be a “heel runner”.
Odd form, but I have no idea if it should be fixed.
Obiri is the only one that boggles my mind that her form can be sustained over a marathon.
Seconding on Mcsweyn. His tiny tiny steps are so painful to watch. Nuguse and Sifan Hassan actually have efficient form for them.They manage to throw their whole lanky-loose jointed bodies into their run and generate incredible speed with their range of motion. Mcsweyn is the opposite with how locked up and shuffly he is.
Odd form, but I have no idea if it should be fixed.
Obiri is the only one that boggles my mind that her form can be sustained over a marathon.
Seconding on Mcsweyn. His tiny tiny steps are so painful to watch. Nuguse and Sifan Hassan actually have efficient form for them.They manage to throw their whole lanky-loose jointed bodies into their run and generate incredible speed with their range of motion. Mcsweyn is the opposite with how locked up and shuffly he is.
Coach Timmons running mechanics08/04/2024 1:24am EDT1 year ago
McSweyn’s stride is not only choppy and relatively short, but for this level of athlete, his stride is displaying some major asymmetry, which will most definitely cut into his running economy. (1) McSweyn’s right femur extend...
Here's the deal... Most of us could tweak our form to become a little more efficient, but those efficiencies will not matter if you're not putting in the training.
I have seen so many guys obsess about form to a fault. "No, I cannot put in the extra miles today because I am doing my toe push-off maneuvers in the gym."
yes I think the truth lies between what you are saying and OP. Clearly when i coach MS kids, they need to dial in their flailing arms for example, and they do "fix" them, but that may be development more than me fixing their arms...they are still growing. But I suspect there is an optimal motion for efficiency, there is just a trade off for trying to fit a square peg in round hole. Right now our best runner (extremely good) who is beating everyone is what most of you would call a heel runner and this choppy gait with seemingly no push off. So...I dont know...does she have a 85 VO2? Im not sure, but its fascinating for sure watching her destroy everyone. Im reluctant to start fixing this ad that. Other than maybe tiny adjustments to an arm swing or something.
Who are you referring to?? The best female runner is arguably Faith Kipyegon (certainly in the running for being at the very top), and she has flawless form. Nikki Hiltz might currently be the best American mid-distance, and I would never consider her to be a “heel runner”.
Seconding on Mcsweyn. His tiny tiny steps are so painful to watch. Nuguse and Sifan Hassan actually have efficient form for them.They manage to throw their whole lanky-loose jointed bodies into their run and generate incredible speed with their range of motion. Mcsweyn is the opposite with how locked up and shuffly he is.
Kind of reminds me of the 800m guy from US. One of the "isaiahs" cant recall which one. Choppy stride looks like he is tying up all the time. Which is insane for 800, you would think perfect efficiency is needed. No accounting for what people get out of their bodies.
I mean has any Pro ever changed their form successfully? Or even Collegiate?
Kind of reminds me of the 800m guy from US. One of the "isaiahs" cant recall which one. Choppy stride looks like he is tying up all the time. Which is insane for 800, you would think perfect efficiency is needed. No accounting for what people get out of their bodies.
I mean has any Pro ever changed their form successfully? Or even Collegiate?
You might want to go back and review what Schweizer’s form looked like in college. For that matter, compare Valby’s high school form with her recent form.
Kind of reminds me of the 800m guy from US. One of the "isaiahs" cant recall which one. Choppy stride looks like he is tying up all the time. Which is insane for 800, you would think perfect efficiency is needed. No accounting for what people get out of their bodies.
I mean has any Pro ever changed their form successfully? Or even Collegiate?
You might want to go back and review what Schweizer’s form looked like in college. For that matter, compare Valby’s high school form with her recent form.
Yea, karissa was more leaned back--that was nuts. But I could argue they just got stronger. I think that takes care of some issues. You can't bend your anatomy to some new form imo.
Mary Moraa - obviously super talented and has won some big ones, but she always looks so tight. Her body is as straight as a fence post pretty early in the race.
Who knows if correcting that would benefit her - maybe like 0.1 seconds? Either way, it always reminded me of my own form when drowning in lactic the last 100m of an 800m. My coach would get on me for it.
The real head-scratcher for me is Quincy Wilson. With his eyes-in-the-skies, low floppy hands and bobbing form, he looks kind of like a caricature (maybe of Quincy Hall?). Yet he is already a high school GOAT.
If you were to be entrusted with him as a coach, do you work to change any of it? He is certainly young enough to adapt. Just look at Nico Young 2.0.
Quincy Wilson's form may work at 5'6", but about at 5'10"?
2025 will be a crucial year in the life of QW. Way more than 2024 was.
Odd form, but I have no idea if it should be fixed.
Obiri is the only one that boggles my mind that her form can be sustained over a marathon.
Seconding on Mcsweyn. His tiny tiny steps are so painful to watch. Nuguse and Sifan Hassan actually have efficient form for them.They manage to throw their whole lanky-loose jointed bodies into their run and generate incredible speed with their range of motion. Mcsweyn is the opposite with how locked up and shuffly he is.
Following your logic Viren must have been painful to watch as well.
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