Because they can't do it. Marathon runners are not more talented than ultra runners. They just have a different kind of talent. Running for 2+ hours fast is one thing and running for a day or two is a whole different thing.
Just last weekend a famed sub 2:20 Marathoner on this forum had a DNF at UMTB.
Give any 2:12 marathoner 6 months to learn how to fuel and deal with blisters etc and they will dominate ultras
Need money to support the lifestyle because the money just isn’t there unless you already got a decent set up from inheritance or significant other supporting the hobby with some prizes
Droddy, Stinson, all those types. Even Centro now that he’s in retirement.
Theyre vastly more talented than David Roche and would only have to run like 70 miles per week, as Roche does.
For Droddy and Stinson and those types:
(1) they’re already living at altitude
(2) they’re more talented than most ultra runners
(3) yes there’s a learning curve, but it seems like it’d be easier for them to adjust to running 8 min pace all day than continue to try to run a sub 2:10 marathon, which isn’t going to happen
(4) they’re never going to qualify for the Olympics, but they could make A LOT of money running ultras
I think there is actually more opportunity to make money in endorsements because of the extra gear and products they use to complete Ultra's
Ultras are great for people who have nothing better to do than go running literally all day on a weekend. I'd rather go knock out 20 by 8 or 9 AM and have the rest of the day to do other things.
Money (or lack f it) is the only reason they are not doing it.
Have a look at this year's Sierre Zinal race:
Killian won-again. But this time it was by just 1.5 seconds (and he also had to break the course record to pull this off).
2nd 3rd and 4th place were Kenyans. In total, 5 Kenyan runners took a spot in the top-10.
These are runners that have no hope of ever making the olympic team in their country. Yet they gave Killian Jornet (the greatest trail/mountain runner to ever live) a very, very hard time. Killian had to give his 101% and still barely made it. On a side note the 2nd place finisher (Philemon Kiriago) has only been involved with trail running for a year or so-so far less experienced in mountain racing tactics than Killian.
There may never be another Killian but there will be plenty of East African sub-olympic runners willing to fill the gap and break all records for the right price.
Well this is where recruitment would come into play. There are probably at least 12 very talented and frustrated marathoners and triathletes who are used to training hours per day with diminishing returns. Ultra would be a fresh start for them.
And imagine if centro as the lead recruiter by training for ultras himself.
Maybe he wouldn’t excel at it—maybe he doesn’t want to run ultras—but the point would be who could he convince to come on board
Imagine if centro or someone like that was paid $5 million for three year to be the face of ultra. If not centro, then a runner like who who has retired or even an athlete or celebrity who is interested in long distance running
this could be game changing for ultra marathons and could have a huge financial return for the ultra running community and for the states where ultra take place
There's 31K and there's 31K. Sierre Zinal has over 6,500 feet of elevation gain and some very technical sections. It's not just straight line speed.
Killian won UTMB four times. And the 2nd place Kenyan in Sierre-Zinal was 1.5 secs behind him. How many UTMB top-10 finishers can keep up with Killian in Sierre Zinal?
Give the guy a year to figure out the training/fueling/logistics aspects and I'm certain he'll break 20 in UTMB (like many other East Africans would).
You ever consider that elevation changes are something that not every road runner can handle? Hell, look at the greatest road marathoner of all time. Guy ran 2 marathons with "significant elevation gain" and ran relatively bad in one of them and quit in the other one. And that's only 1k elevation gain. Put them in a 100 mile race with over 30,000 ft gain and suddenly these fast marathoners look like mortals.
Keep in mind that trails are also nothing like pavement. You can't simply open your stride and expect to keep pace.
Droddy, Stinson, all those types. Even Centro now that he’s in retirement.
Theyre vastly more talented than David Roche and would only have to run like 70 miles per week, as Roche does.
For Droddy and Stinson and those types:
(1) they’re already living at altitude
(2) they’re more talented than most ultra runners
(3) yes there’s a learning curve, but it seems like it’d be easier for them to adjust to running 8 min pace all day than continue to try to run a sub 2:10 marathon, which isn’t going to happen
(4) they’re never going to qualify for the Olympics, but they could make A LOT of money running ultras
Why doesn't Usain Bolt just go out and jog a sub 1'50" marathon? He has much more intrinsic speed than Kipchoge and those guys so it's pretty much a given that he could do it plus he'd make a ton of money.
If sponsors are still willing to sponsor them as road and track athletes, why would they stop? There's far less money in being an ultra runner than people realize. The popular ones are only a step up from your typical IG influencer.
There's 31K and there's 31K. Sierre Zinal has over 6,500 feet of elevation gain and some very technical sections. It's not just straight line speed.
Killian won UTMB four times. And the 2nd place Kenyan in Sierre-Zinal was 1.5 secs behind him. How many UTMB top-10 finishers can keep up with Killian in Sierre Zinal?
Give the guy a year to figure out the training/fueling/logistics aspects and I'm certain he'll break 20 in UTMB (like many other East Africans would).
Droddy, Stinson, all those types. Even Centro now that he’s in retirement.
Theyre vastly more talented than David Roche and would only have to run like 70 miles per week, as Roche does.
For Droddy and Stinson and those types:
(1) they’re already living at altitude
(2) they’re more talented than most ultra runners
(3) yes there’s a learning curve, but it seems like it’d be easier for them to adjust to running 8 min pace all day than continue to try to run a sub 2:10 marathon, which isn’t going to happen
(4) they’re never going to qualify for the Olympics, but they could make A LOT of money running ultras
Why doesn't Usain Bolt just go out and jog a sub 1'50" marathon? He has much more intrinsic speed than Kipchoge and those guys so it's pretty much a given that he could do it plus he'd make a ton of money.
The point I'm trying to make (and some refuse to at least consider) is that "nobodies" in the international marathon scene can challenge the GOAT of mountain running over a 2.5h technical race in his own turf (Killian won the race TEN TIMES ffs-he's no stranger to the course).
Do you really think sub-2:15 marathoners run only track/pavement? Well I have news for you-most are running almost exclusively dirt roads and mellow trails with significant elevation changes. They don't lack the stamina-they lack the experience to run fast over gnarly terrain (a trait than can be taught if practiced regularly). The only reason they struggle with hilly road marathons is because they're already racing at the limit of human performance-and there's a very fine line separating a WR or PB from a DNF.
If a Kenyan sub-elite marathoner who'll never have a shot at competing in the highest level is able to go neck to neck with the best in the mountains after just 12 months of specific training (a feat that no "dedicated" trail runner has ever achieved in that race) then IMHO ultra runners should be very, very worried if/when prize money starts to pile up in ultramarathons...
This post was edited 16 minutes after it was posted.
SZ is a marathon effort race. You trade flat running economy for strength endurance in the uphill sections and you need downhill skills to go fast at the end (which is usually the weak spot for road runners). But SZ is a short race, especially the downhill, the main limiting factor is your aerobic engine (like in marathon).
Ultra 100k / 100M with strong elevation change is a different beast, legs (and guts) are the limiting factor, you need very strong quads to sustain all the downhills. This is where the skillset differs a lot from road running. You have to trade running economy & speed for muscle resistance & durability.
A strong aerobic engine is still obviously the main dominant factor, so any elite marathoner, given enough time to train in the mountain would do well. But how many months / years of adaptation does it take? and how much do you lose in the process of the economy / speed side?
Kilian Jornet beat a few Kenyans and Ugandans and some other good runners at Sierre-Zinal (19.3 miles with 7,000 ft of total gain) Josphat Kiprotich (59:35 half pr, 2:13 marathon) Patrick Kipngeno 62:42 half Robbie Simpson: 2:14:56 marathon pr Christian Allen (13:34 5k) Francesco Puppi (64:41/2:16:18) Meika Beaudoin-Rousseau (28:35 10k)
Yeah a lot of them aren't household names or world beaters on the road, but the trail events have been getting faster over the year, and keep in mind these guys are mostly focused on shorter mountain events, which limits your track/road speed.
Also anyone familiar with running at very high altitude (where training over 9k feet would actually be detrimental to faster road/track runners) understands how impressive Roche's run was. Yeah the talent depth isn't the same as the road/track, but you still gotta be really fast to win the big trail races these days.
Train a low 2 hour guy to run trails and yeah he probably stomps, but ya gotta do the specific sessions first.
I know some successful ultra runners who chose it because they weren't fast enough on the roads to be taken seriously. They began as the Droddy, Stinson types (but slower actually) and do well. Some rake in decent sponsorship money.
You do not need to be some superhuman to do ultras. You just need to apply the same pain tolerance you develop in a marathons differently and switch up your routine/training.
To clarify, I don't see any reason why the best road/track runners can't be successful mountain or ultra athletes. Put more money in and you'll eventually see a lot of these records get destroyed. (Extreme altitude racing required different considerations but a lot of Africans already live/train at 7-8k soooo)
The opposite is also true. Killian is really good at the long, technical stuff, and sometimes the short but very steep stuff, but not as good on flat ground. I think he barely broke 30 minutes on a pancake flat 10k course, which should be a walk in the park for the 2:12-2:13 guys he beats at SZ.
