When is the idea "Get out fast" going to end.

I always recommend that coaches get an idea of how long a particular runner gets to steady state heart rate going at race pace.

This will vary greatly between runners.

As a rule, runners who can get their heart rates up to race pace quickly have the capability to go out faster than runners who don't.

Runners who don't also need to do a little more rigorous warm up as well. From what I have observed it is paramount that they maximize their heart's ability to raise its BPM if they want to avoid excessive 02 debt at the beginning of a race.

it may hurt you, but it's still true

Especially from 800 to 5000. If you don't want to know how energy systems work, suit yourself, but no point whining about it.

Unless you've stupidly spent it on jittery strides and what not, you get a free minute or two of phosphocreatine and anaerobic glycogen use before you get your aerobic energy into gear. This is because you are not aerobically in gear until your muscle pH level drops well below blood pH. Failing to take that first minute or two faster than overall average pace is a wasted opportunity; you will hit that pH level no matter what, so take advantage while you can on the way there.

Wottle was extremely lucky everyone died in front of him and didn't block him

The thing is, if you go out "too slow" and you let's say he does go out at 530 but he's really in 500 shape, the next race he can adjust and go out in 520, and the next race in 515. It's a lot easier to make adjustments working it that way, than the other.

In xc there are many ebbs and flows of the race up front pace-wise. How do you properly tell a kid to pace themselves? The race will settle down and your runner can settle in. You'd know this if you've ever had a kid actually compete at a high level. How come nobody at the Olympics won by running perfectly even splits? Hmm?

It’s called blowing your wad. I just did it on Saturday. Blasted into first place and held it for a mile. Faded to finish 21st.

Mate, stop trying to dissuade people from using poor tactics.

It makes it much easier to beat people if they continue to race like dimwits.

Well yeah, if you suck obviously don't go out with the leaders. Strength doesn't mean you're good at pacing. Strength means you can get out in a good position and hold it. Xc is a battle of attrition. Show me a world medalist in xc or track who went out more than 10 seconds behind the leaders. Like one from this decade.

yeah ours went out in 6th at the first mile, got to second by the second mile, and finished first at state

It varies with where the athlete is on the team and in field. If you're the 3-4-5 runner on your XC team you should be going out at a pace you know you can hold, don't let yourself get pulled along too fast only to fade later. The top one or two if they have a legit shot at winning should try to stay in contact with the leader, you don't have to go wire-to-wire but don't let yourself fall too far behind to make up later.

I think the difference is that middle-of-the-pack athletes racing for position are racing the field, you can maximize your performance by running your best time and you're going to do that by running even splits. Whereas at the front you're racing a small number of individuals and you're going to have to think more tactically about the course or who you can outkick.

"Cross country is a contest to see who slows down the least." - on old college coach.

I remember thinking at the time, if I don't go out too hard and die, I win, right?

When high school and college coaches grow brains aka never

If you're good, you won't be out too hard.

Didn't Ethiopia just make a point to try exactly that at the Paris Olympics, to charge to the front and push the pace? How did that turn out for them?

Free energy idea is a myth. Yes your creatine phosphate stores are providing ATP for initial acceleration, however just because it's metabolically free doesn't mean it's without downside. You still feel the muscular and neurological fatigue of the sudden acceleration. Furthermore if your hard start lasts beyond the few seconds you're allowed, then you force your anaerobic system to spike lactate to maintain the pace you established.

"The idea that you can't lose contact with the leaders has cut more throats than it has saved."
Arthur Lydiard

Centuries ago when I was a kid, it was a given in every cross country race, especially once you got to college/university, that you go out pretty much at mile pace.

OOOF! I'd lay back a bit at the start of these XC events, like a good middle distance runner should, run a negative split, and generally do OK.

As a high school coach of successful teams (2nd in state two years ago), this concept has always been intriguing to me to think about. I believe in what most have said about running even splits to win the race, especially in the postseason, when athletes get to top of the state level or faster. But high school kids, especially those inexperienced with running are interesting cats! I've seen a ton of kids who run slower than 16 minutes that hold themselves back in races. They run way slower than what their workouts say they are capable of. In some cases telling them to go out slow can validate their fears of the races and make it even harder to get them running what they are capable of.

My strategy has always been to have athletes go out a little uncomfortably fast and learn a lesson early in the season. Then they are more prepared for that time they have to go out with and hold come the end of the season. I've seen tons of kids rip the bandaid off and PR by a minute or more going out hard and dying! I think it resets what their brain believes is possible when it comes to how bad they can hurt.

This has been especially true in races like 400, 800, 1600 in track. Kids must find out what they are capable of before they learn to even split.

This is a comical thread.

It completely and absolutely depends on the specific situation and the specific individuals who are racing. There is no absolute way to race.

I have coached athletes who had to be in the front to feel good about themselves. Didn't mean they would win every race but I can tell you one thing, those type of athletes never came from behind unless they were far superior to the field they were racing.

I have coached a few athletes that were best working through the field (far fewer than the front runner types). In my mind these types are exceptional racers in that respect. It is not easy to pass people throughout the race. If it was everyone would do it.

You have to find a balance. You must go out in good position for who you are and what your goals are. There are so many factors at play here you just can't make blanket statements..

And actually sometimes... 'get out fast' is a good idea. So, no, it's not going to end.

Or maybe 10th place could have been top three if he hadn't need to pass quite as many runners.

Nobody should ever be in >200th place in a race they are racing to WIN. Face it.