I feel like it would depend on the person. Like I’ve never taken EPO obviously but never got any appreciable benefit from altitude training, which is supposed to have a similar effect.
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Go read some of the old cycling books, Tyler Hamilton, the Danes back in the day. Dr Ferrari himself declared nothing else matters but red blood cells.
But also depends on the person. If you are training hard and you hematocrit is 42 and you EPO that bad boy to 51-51 that’s a HUGE jump.
Apparently in the glory days the Danish guys were jogging in hotels in the middle of the night with hematocrits in the mid 60s. Had to keep that heart rate up so you didn’t die in your sleep. THAT is getting after it
Even the BALCO sprinters were on EPO. It has always been THE drug.
This⬆️. That's why it's not a "Level Playing Field" if everyone is doing it. If your hematocrit is naturally 40 (allegedly LanceArmstrong), the benefits far outweigh a kid with a 49 hematocrit (allegedly Jonathon Vaughters). If you pump it up to 60 (allegedly Bjarn Reeese), now you're talking💉. Mississippi Crude
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You can tell your ‘friend’ that there is an ‘Outdoor’ magazine article where one of the writers takes it for a few months. Basically said that he never got tired and pretty much felt invincible while on it. Victor Conte talks about it too. Instant recovery and allows for multiple hard workouts in short period of time which would otherwise not be possible. There is a reason athletes use it. Basically, it just makes it easier to work harder.
I know a guy that knows a guy…
the story goes that there was a 7:45 3k runner that talked about joining the crowd and taking epo just like everyone else was doing (so he thought). The next summer he ran 7:32. so, assuming the epo was the difference, I’d say you are looking at a pretty decent amount of improvement.
if i had to guess, about 1.5% improvement. your training is the most important part how well you do in a race. it's only when you push yourself to the very edge and is within range of elite level performances would people need to resort to things like EPO, supplements, 1 hour yoga sessions, ice baths, massages etc. for the most part, just do some good running running consistently and avoid injuries at all costs.
You can tell your ‘friend’ that there is an ‘Outdoor’ magazine article where one of the writers takes it for a few months. Basically said that he never got tired and pretty much felt invincible while on it. Victor Conte talks about it too. Instant recovery and allows for multiple hard workouts in short period of time which would otherwise not be possible. There is a reason athletes use it. Basically, it just makes it easier to work harder.
What are the negative effects?
There was a rumor Hicham El Guerrouj collapsed and nearly died after a race, his blood was so thick. He collapsed after his world record 1500.
Armstrong was adamant that it was a 10% improvement in watts. Little tough to translate that to running race times, but that is probably the most concrete base from an expert on the subject to start from.
I guess everyone cheats. If not, someone could have run 3:20 by now if they started to cheat.
I see your logic but I think you are missing the next step, how the muscle fibers use the oxygen. And there is an upper limit to where EPO can take you, which some people are at naturally. I am naturally a 42 hematocrit, so EPO would have helped me a lot. But if you are naturally at 50, there is less "room to improve."
There is a "max" hematocrit that athletes can have and still live (blood gets too thick), but there is also a limit on how fast your muscle can use the oxygen. So at some point, let's say at 51 or 52, you start to see very diminished returns (if any) on "more red blood cells."
That is why people like Kip Keino or Jim Ryun, for example who might have had a natural hematocrit of 52, would be running 3:31-32 back in the 1960s (before EPO was invented), but even on full EPO (1990s) the record is only five seconds faster.
So to answer your question, 5 seconds is the most it has helped HUMANITY in the 1500m.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Same reason why you can't take test, tren, etc. and expect to be the next Ronnie Coleman. Elite genetics are a requirement to then become truly great. Another way of putting this that I liked is by the powerlifter Dave Tate. He says that steroids are an ace in the hole that can bump you up a single level of performance, not turn you from zero to hero. If you are a solid high school player, you might be able to hang with the collegiate guys. If you are a solid college guy, you might have a shot of being a bench warmer in the pros. You have to have the right genetics as a prerequisite.
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