People in their 50s and 60s doing plyos - what does a typical plyo workout look like?
I'll describe a bit of what we do, but it's constantly evolving.
We bike to the local highschool which has a nice turf field that isn't occupied on Sat mornings.
The plyos are an extension of a dynamic warmup that we do before doing a bunch of 10m falling starts, 20m flys, and 40-80m reps.
The dynamic warmup is typical high knee skips, bunny and single foot hops, scoops, zigzag speed ladder. Then single leg RDL for balance and mobility, followed by a second set where you jump at the top of each rep.
Move over to the bleacher which has a flight of 6 steps. Two feet together, light hops, one step at a time for a few passes, then two steps, then three. Then hopping up the steps on one foot, followed by two steps at a time on one foot.
Then go down an aisle of the bleachers. Step through the seat launching up, with opposite arm action. A couple passes in each direction.
Then onto the turf. Do a deep lunge and explode into a broad jump landing feet together. Do several reps each side.
Then squat to the bench and burst up for height, and then for distance.
Optional bounding.
Then a few build up runs of 60m before doing the speed work.
No doubt he's built up to this. If you're just starting out skipping, in place hops and pogo jumps might be enough. Add a few other exercises like low box jumps and stepping off a low box to teach landing mechanics.
I'll describe a bit of what we do, but it's constantly evolving.
We bike to the local highschool which has a nice turf field that isn't occupied on Sat mornings.
The plyos are an extension of a dynamic warmup that we do before doing a bunch of 10m falling starts, 20m flys, and 40-80m reps.
The dynamic warmup is typical high knee skips, bunny and single foot hops, scoops, zigzag speed ladder. Then single leg RDL for balance and mobility, followed by a second set where you jump at the top of each rep.
Move over to the bleacher which has a flight of 6 steps. Two feet together, light hops, one step at a time for a few passes, then two steps, then three. Then hopping up the steps on one foot, followed by two steps at a time on one foot.
Then go down an aisle of the bleachers. Step through the seat launching up, with opposite arm action. A couple passes in each direction.
Then onto the turf. Do a deep lunge and explode into a broad jump landing feet together. Do several reps each side.
Then squat to the bench and burst up for height, and then for distance.
Optional bounding.
Then a few build up runs of 60m before doing the speed work.
No doubt he's built up to this. If you're just starting out skipping, in place hops and pogo jumps might be enough. Add a few other exercises like low box jumps and stepping off a low box to teach landing mechanics.
Yes, we have built into this and slowly add and swap elements. I couldn't do two steps at a time on one foot at first. We slowly build the number of foot contacts and err on doing too little rather than too much. Each week I assess how my joints feel 24 hours later.
You'll also notice that landing impacts are limited since most of what we are doing so far involves jumping up and landing at a higher height, rather than jumping down.
No doubt he's built up to this. If you're just starting out skipping, in place hops and pogo jumps might be enough. Add a few other exercises like low box jumps and stepping off a low box to teach landing mechanics.
Yes, we have built into this and slowly add and swap elements. I couldn't do two steps at a time on one foot at first. We slowly build the number of foot contacts and err on doing too little rather than too much. Each week I assess how my joints feel 24 hours later.
You'll also notice that landing impacts are limited since most of what we are doing so far involves jumping up and landing at a higher height, rather than jumping down.
Yep..., my experience is that people do too much too soon. Exercise is supposed to build us up not break us down.
Mostly "training like a sprinter" just means spending a ton of time in the weight room, which a lot of adults already do.
If you're just talking about the track work part, an entire track workout for a sprinter might be something like a handful of 30m sprints all out with full recovery. You aren't going to get anything out of a workout like this unless you already have the strength and sprint mechanics to really hit each one all out. Your average fitness runner is just going to accelerate to 5 minute mile pace over 30m and finish the whole workout feeling like they've just done a few light striders. It's just harder to do this kind of training on a casual basis.
Your idea wold be better applied to mid-d training than sprint training. The average fitness jogger could definitely benefit from doing som 800m type workouts like 200m/400m repeats at various paces/efforts.
I disagree with a lot of this. I do "sprinter" workouts and sometimes do them with people who weren't athletes like me.
A few minutes of dynamic stretching/warm up drills.
10–15 minutes of running drills/plyos. Basically doing 10s of intense work every minute, on the minute. If someone's advanced/skilled/trained they can do A-skips and fancy stuff. If they're not, I'll have them stick to high knees and high knee buttkicks and pogo hops, easier movements. Basically a knock off of feed the cats.
3–5xshort hill sprints, like 5–8s w/ 1–2 min rest. Then a few 100s or soccer field strides.
Sometimes we'll finish with some core or some strength, simple stuff like walking lunges or bodyweight squats.
I've done this with pretty "regular" people.
On the weightroom side of things, it's just getting in 2–3xweek for 45–60 min. Something explosive, something heavy, then a few accessories.
Ride a bike or go hiking or jogging once or twice a week on top of this and you're all around very fit for a normal person.
10s high intensity with only 50s rest is not the way to develop speed and if you are doing that for multiple reps you are not sprinting at MaxV except for perhaps the first rep.
most young runners don't start out running 5ks or half marathons. they might be sprinters or hurdlers. or they might run something like 800 or mile. maybe 2 miles max for cross. then in HS after building up for a while in terms of training and race distance, ok, now if you want, run 5k XC and 3200. by college, ok, 8k XC, 10k TF. that's years of build for even the good ones.
to me trudgers are like some kid who shows up for XC when the distance is out to 5k, no sports experience. yeah, a lot of them would run 25-30 min too.
i tend to encourage folks towards TF first instead of distance/XC because properly explored TF can more slowly build you up from nothing, as opposed to throw you in the deep end, and you can explore what running or field you are good at or want to do.
to me XC or road distance is one size fits all and toss you in the deep end. done badly it's people clocking slow mile after slow mile that once they get into decent shape aren't going to get much faster without mixing things up. and even done well, it's would your heart be content with one quick lap or several churned ones.
adults to me come in and pick the hardest version for which they haven't built up and jump in the deep end. my advice is go master a 400, a half mile, a mile, work your way up.
which, to relate to your arguments and training theories, if you build your way up, you are more likely to learn diverse training regimes which promote mastery of different events, to tap into some natural foot speed or at least as much as you have, and to not be some trudging slowpoke when you arrive to distance. i mean, as a sprinter and hurdler who dabbled some in XC or road, having come at it that direction, naturally lively legs, and it becomes about putting work in, about balancing speed and endurance, and about holding back a little to pace myself.
anyhow, to me they should be doing sprint workouts first because they should start out at sprint distances, and learn how to run a quarter mile before a 5k. that's what kids do.
I disagree with a lot of this. I do "sprinter" workouts and sometimes do them with people who weren't athletes like me.
A few minutes of dynamic stretching/warm up drills.
10–15 minutes of running drills/plyos. Basically doing 10s of intense work every minute, on the minute. If someone's advanced/skilled/trained they can do A-skips and fancy stuff. If they're not, I'll have them stick to high knees and high knee buttkicks and pogo hops, easier movements. Basically a knock off of feed the cats.
3–5xshort hill sprints, like 5–8s w/ 1–2 min rest. Then a few 100s or soccer field strides.
Sometimes we'll finish with some core or some strength, simple stuff like walking lunges or bodyweight squats.
I've done this with pretty "regular" people.
On the weightroom side of things, it's just getting in 2–3xweek for 45–60 min. Something explosive, something heavy, then a few accessories.
Ride a bike or go hiking or jogging once or twice a week on top of this and you're all around very fit for a normal person.
10s high intensity with only 50s rest is not the way to develop speed and if you are doing that for multiple reps you are not sprinting at MaxV except for perhaps the first rep.
It's not sprinting for 10s w/ 50s rest. It's drills for 10s w/ 50s rest between. A bit less demanding than sprinting, but you're not wrong.
Is it absolutely ideal for developing max speed? Absolutely not.
Is it basically copying the Feed the Cats program, which is good enough for almost everyone except seriously dedicated sprinters? Yeah, totally.
Is it good enough for the average person? Yes. I used this basic template as a sub 50 400/800m runner back in the day.
Some of you are listing more of a workout training with too much volume or too short of a rest. That won’t work on your max speed. Maybe get you in better shape and just be exhausted, but they’re not sprinting workout.
Some of you are listing more of a workout training with too much volume or too short of a rest. That won’t work on your max speed. Maybe get you in better shape and just be exhausted, but they’re not sprinting workout.
"When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Distance runners and distance coaches are so guilty of this. We will take any workout and turn it into an endurance workout. We cant help themselves. We see drills, warm up, 3x flying 30m, 2x 80m all out and cant imagine THAT being the entire workout.
As old guy, I am exploring the same idea except more focused on 400 style training purely for fitness. It strikes nice balance between speed and cardio. Lots of 20/30/40 second intervals and hills, experimenting with different recovery lengths. Loads of fun. Grass or gravel, no track yet.
Hardest part is not overdoing it. Really have to reign it in some days because so easy to overreach the older I get. I really feel it the next day.
As old guy, I am exploring the same idea except more focused on 400 style training purely for fitness. It strikes nice balance between speed and cardio. Lots of 20/30/40 second intervals and hills, experimenting with different recovery lengths. Loads of fun. Grass or gravel, no track yet.
Hardest part is not overdoing it. Really have to rein it in some days because so easy to overreach the older I get. I really feel it the next day.
I think you’re still looking like you’re doing too much volume. 400 style training looks more similar to 100m training with some speed endurance workouts. Maybe like sprinters tempo of 8x200m at 75~80% effort with 2 min rest at times. But most of the workouts would be much shorter distances or flying start sprints to work on your max speed. there should be zero jogging for 400m and below. Best to work on your max speed.
As old guy, I am exploring the same idea except more focused on 400 style training purely for fitness. It strikes nice balance between speed and cardio. Lots of 20/30/40 second intervals and hills, experimenting with different recovery lengths. Loads of fun. Grass or gravel, no track yet.
Hardest part is not overdoing it. Really have to rein it in some days because so easy to overreach the older I get. I really feel it the next day.
I think you’re still looking like you’re doing too much volume. 400 style training looks more similar to 100m training with some speed endurance workouts. Maybe like sprinters tempo of 8x200m at 75~80% effort with 2 min rest at times. But most of the workouts would be much shorter distances or flying start sprints to work on your max speed. there should be zero jogging for 400m and below. Best to work on your max speed.
I think you're missing the point. This is a thread about more casual fitness that is influenced by sprint training. This is not a thread for serious sprint training. Furthermore, you can still gain speed from sub-optimal sprint training, especially if you're not super well-trained in sprinting.
If Joe-Schmoe-40-year-old goes out and does 10x50m, assuming he's worked up to it and can execute the workout safely, it's still likely going to make him faster, even though it's way more volume than a sprinter might do. If he's enjoying it and it keeps him fit and he's seeing sprint/plyo gains, then it sounds like it's working for its intended purpose.
When adults get into running, it’s mostly jogging and slower paced running. It’s almost a default as universal knowledge to stay fit/healthy is to run/jog. There are various reasons that we all know.
But why don’t more do actual sprinters workouts? I’m not saying like full-blown competing in track and field events, but if you want to, certainly can. But train and do like 60% of the work.
Similar to what people do by just jogging few miles everyday. Not specifically training for a race, but if needed, can do some speed workouts for couple of months and probably do okay in racing.
sprinters training that’s like 80% effective to be decent and not overdoing it is much less commitment than running/jogging. You only need to do 2/3 days of speed work per week. And lift or do bodyweight if youre just staying healthy for just 2 days a week. That means, you don’t even have to workout on weekends. Each session is like 30-40 minutes. You only have to go to track once a week or you can go some weeks without visiting a track if you’re just doing it for fun. You can just do your workout on grass, hill, or on a street. You don’t need that much space for most days.
there are injury risks to sprinting. But running long distance can be full of injuries as well. This is something that you have to be careful with.
Also, it’s not like CrossFit. You don’t go to exhaustion. Or, do workouts until you’re dead tired. Sprinting is full effort and will get full rest on most workouts.
Great post.
But here's the thing - as an adult, you're more likely to be carrying a bit of extra weight when starting out.
Therefore, some jogging may be a prerequisite to getting into sprinting.
In that regard, they are somewhat co-dependant.
Whereas a teenager may have good musculoskeletal system as a starting point, an adult that has been inactive may need to rebuild the same fitness.
In the end, sprinting can be very fulfilling when you have a good run.
Mostly "training like a sprinter" just means spending a ton of time in the weight room, which a lot of adults already do.
If you're just talking about the track work part, an entire track workout for a sprinter might be something like a handful of 30m sprints all out with full recovery. You aren't going to get anything out of a workout like this unless you already have the strength and sprint mechanics to really hit each one all out. Your average fitness runner is just going to accelerate to 5 minute mile pace over 30m and finish the whole workout feeling like they've just done a few light striders. It's just harder to do this kind of training on a casual basis.
Your idea wold be better applied to mid-d training than sprint training. The average fitness jogger could definitely benefit from doing som 800m type workouts like 200m/400m repeats at various paces/efforts.
I disagree with a lot of this. I do "sprinter" workouts and sometimes do them with people who weren't athletes like me.
A few minutes of dynamic stretching/warm up drills.
10–15 minutes of running drills/plyos. Basically doing 10s of intense work every minute, on the minute. If someone's advanced/skilled/trained they can do A-skips and fancy stuff. If they're not, I'll have them stick to high knees and high knee buttkicks and pogo hops, easier movements. Basically a knock off of feed the cats.
3–5xshort hill sprints, like 5–8s w/ 1–2 min rest. Then a few 100s or soccer field strides.
Sometimes we'll finish with some core or some strength, simple stuff like walking lunges or bodyweight squats.
I've done this with pretty "regular" people.
On the weightroom side of things, it's just getting in 2–3xweek for 45–60 min. Something explosive, something heavy, then a few accessories.
Ride a bike or go hiking or jogging once or twice a week on top of this and you're all around very fit for a normal person.
I guess I just don't really see any of this as "training like a sprinter." Everything you mention is a common part of mid-d and distance training as well as sprint training (aside from maybe a little more time in the weight room than would be typical for mid-d/distance). If I go do a set of running drills and then some short hill sprints and 100m strides, I could just as reasonably say that I'm training like an 800m runner.
Some of you are listing more of a workout training with too much volume or too short of a rest. That won’t work on your max speed. Maybe get you in better shape and just be exhausted, but they’re not sprinting workout.
"When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Distance runners and distance coaches are so guilty of this. We will take any workout and turn it into an endurance workout. We cant help themselves. We see drills, warm up, 3x flying 30m, 2x 80m all out and cant imagine THAT being the entire workout.
True, I made that mistake when I took a level 2 sprint course. I asked "is this the whole workout" and was ripped apart by the lead instructor. A former college 800 meter runner turned coach took me aside and explained this to me. It was a necessary and humbling experience.
10s high intensity with only 50s rest is not the way to develop speed and if you are doing that for multiple reps you are not sprinting at MaxV except for perhaps the first rep.
It's not sprinting for 10s w/ 50s rest. It's drills for 10s w/ 50s rest between. A bit less demanding than sprinting, but you're not wrong.
Is it absolutely ideal for developing max speed? Absolutely not.
Is it basically copying the Feed the Cats program, which is good enough for almost everyone except seriously dedicated sprinters? Yeah, totally.
Is it good enough for the average person? Yes. I used this basic template as a sub 50 400/800m runner back in the day.
You do not understand "Feed The Cats", which is all about doing few reps at max V, preceded by some drills and plyos. 10s with 50s reps is not in the FTC playbook. Tony Holler wants you to recover longer than 50s when you are doing maxV. Yes, that is OK for someone training for 400/800.
You do plyos in your 50s? Not sure I would recommend that.
Sprints and interval training to get the heart rate up, sure.
Plyos don't become dangerous solely because you get older. They become dangerous because most people don't do them in any capacity.
That said, any exercise becomes more risky the older you get, but you can't limit it to just plyos. I've met a lot of older "joggers" with borderline ruined bodies from too many easy miles and never any strength. Most of the masters sprinters I've run with were pretty spry.
Plyos get dangerous when people use them as an ego boost and try jumping higher than they should to impress others. If you adjust the box/hurdle height for your ability and condition they are safe. If you are too old to jump over any hurdle then use one of the shorter soft boxes.
I think you’re still looking like you’re doing too much volume. 400 style training looks more similar to 100m training with some speed endurance workouts. Maybe like sprinters tempo of 8x200m at 75~80% effort with 2 min rest at times. But most of the workouts would be much shorter distances or flying start sprints to work on your max speed. there should be zero jogging for 400m and below. Best to work on your max speed.
I think you're missing the point. This is a thread about more casual fitness that is influenced by sprint training. This is not a thread for serious sprint training. Furthermore, you can still gain speed from sub-optimal sprint training, especially if you're not super well-trained in sprinting.
If Joe-Schmoe-40-year-old goes out and does 10x50m, assuming he's worked up to it and can execute the workout safely, it's still likely going to make him faster, even though it's way more volume than a sprinter might do. If he's enjoying it and it keeps him fit and he's seeing sprint/plyo gains, then it sounds like it's working for its intended purpose.
I’m not missing the point as I’m the OP. I just can’t utilize the same handle as Letsrun thinks it’s already being utilized by someone else.
I’ve specifically stated in original post to not do CrossFit type training of workouts that exert yourself to the limit or short rest intervals.
It should be more of sprinters training. It’s just that most people who visit this board don’t know sprinters training so they offer training that’s to exhaustion or way too many reps or too long of a distance. Then, honestly, it’s not as fun and kind of too demanding where you’ll lose motivation to do it. Or it just becomes too hard. I don’t want this thread to be recommending stuff that’s not at all sprinter type training of doing reps that are way too long of distances or short rests.
Distance runners like to stereotype sprinters as “lazy” or “easy” workouts. Well, those “lazy, easy” workouts can be very good for you and keep you looking physically good too.