Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?

Davebedfordwannabe, I have found many of your previous posts to be knowledgeable & insightful. However, I'm afraid that this thread certainly isn't one of them.

As another person already mentioned, feigning ignorance to essentially annoy the "Pre worshippers" is childish (at best). If you got something to say, here's a rather novel idea: why don't you actually speak your mind, instead of playing immature mind games with the sole purpose of initiating a reality check to those who have overrated Prefontaine's accomplishments.

It's unfortunate that "Pre idolatry has always kind of annoyed" you, but I think that most of us feel that people who create threads that make them sound like a 12-year-old antagonistic skeptic are equally annoying!

[quote]davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Sadly, our American prodigy died many years before he reached his prime and could become the greatest runner ever. But I was thinking that maybe he won some races in Europe along the way before he died.

quote]

You really went about all this in a very sneaky way. Why? In this quote you seem to be insinuating that you think Pre would have been the very best given the chance, had he not died. But then you go on to say that he was very overrated and didn't really do anything respectable on an international level. Why didn't you just come out and say that at the beginning. Although, this issue has been utterly beaten to death and I shouldn't really care. Personally, I feel like 4th at the Olympics is pretty damn good for a 21 year old in his first major international race. Maybe it's just me.

No that this matters, but...

Why is Kobe bryant considered the best Bballer?

Why is Terrel Owens considered the best Fballer?

Pre was very brash and open about his goodness. This got him noticed. While in AMERICA, where AMERICANS WATCHED him, he lived up to his own hype.

My paper mentioned Goucher but did not mention or show results of the others in the race. The young gernaration at the time of Pre saw hiw always winning and read about him winning but never really herd about his defeats. this lead many to the belief that he was the best in the world.

I bet if that made mainstream movies about the other runners that we feel are uch better than Pre, then maybe todays "pipsqeeak" highschoolrs would idolize them.

Some of you guys are taking my posts way too seriously. Fortunately, the majority of readers can see the humor in a little sarcasm, especially in the case of Pre's reputation. Pre worshipers hate to read posts about how Pre wasn't on the same level as some of the other international runners of his time.

If Nike and Hollywood portray Pre in a dishonest manner, it's a service to the running community to point out that he didn't win a major international race against the best when they were at the peak of their training cycles. It's a fact that some people just can't accept. This subject may be beaten to death already, but there are still a lot of people who get emotional when someone question's Pre's place in track history.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

...the majority of readers can see the humor in a little sarcasm, especially in the case of Pre's reputation.

What a bunch of garbage. As I said before, I've enjoyed your posts in the past, but this was more than just "a little sarcasm." It was intentionally antagonistic, and there are already enough topics of that kind on this board without somebody else finding a creative way to create yet another one.

Don't get me wrong...I respect what Prefontaine accomplished, while keeping things in the proper perspective. No, he certainly wasn't the best in the world. At the same time, keep in mind that it's a little difficult to pass judgment upon a distance runner whose only major competition was an Olympic Games while he was 21-years-old (well before his prime).

Sorry Davebedfordwannabe, but immature mind games do not constitute "a service to the running community." They could be more accurately described as antagonistic verbal diarrhea.

i guess one other thing is that back in those days before the africans really dominated the american records vs the world werent far off and pre held what like at least 5 american records? and ran the top 10 times in the world ever.

you can't seem to accept that he did beat many of those people in other races but you seem to write if off because they werent "at the peak of their training cycle"

Like I said, this is still an emotional subject for a lot of people, as evidenced by the angry reactions on here.

A lot of people do get angry when someone points out that Prefontaine never won a major international race. Sorry that I touched a nerve here.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

A lot of people do get angry when someone points out that Prefontaine never won a major international race.

No offense Dave, but I understand everyone else's reactions.

You have made some valid points. Pre was a great runner, although not the best-of-the-best. I don't worship him either, and for the most part I agree with what you have said.

That being said, I think you will find that people also get angry when somebody creates a topic that's essentially baiting them. You WERE manipulative and antagonistic Dave, and it would be nice if you would actually own up to it, rather than portray yourself as a man with a sarcastic wit who is performing a noble service to the running community by writing in this manner.

I guess my main question for you is what was the point of your "question."

You already had the answer did you not?

So your point was simply to come on here and cause alittle arguement and I'm the first to be all for arguing but I won't start the argument just for the sake of it.

Did you think you could come on here and try to tarnish Pre's idol status to a number of the young runners on here? Why would you even think/try to do such a low life thing?

If you came on and said I think X was better here is why but you come out and simply state this guy was nothing you guys shouldn't look up to him...should they look up to you? NO you just wanted to cause some tension.

At least I enjoy knowning that you're my bitch.

one has to to wonder about the seething anger and resentment that fuels someone to start one of these threads. how empty must your life be to actually give a crap about this? your disingenuous attempt to pose this as a question or a "service" is patently passive-agressive and quite frankly disturbing. i am worried for you.

it seems you want to say, essentially, "pre wasn't that great".

i think people get this. really. maybe you are new here but this has been beaten to death a hundred times on this board. yet you seem to lack the ability to understand the difference between someone saying "pre is god" and someone saying "leave the man alone, he's dead".

i am not sure of your point in doing this unless it is some sort of anger therapy. is that it? do you resent prefontaine and the acclaim he has achieved. yes, i think that is it.

i suggest you seek counseling immediately. in the very least, i think dyestat is more your speed. you should have no shortage of "pre worshippers" there.

overseas, people universally respect Viren, yifter, bc they WON...

and pre universally got rolled by dixon, who was internationally seen as an "also ran" until he won NYC

Pre is purely an AMERICAN myth/ legend...not an INTERNATIONAL one

Actually, the point of this thread is to focus on Pre's international career. And this thread has been very successful in doing that.

Note how Pre's supporters have spent their energies attacking me instead of showing his big international victories. Maybe they want to distract everyone from the fact that there are none to speak of.

But the more they attack me, the more people will realize that Pre never won a major international race. And knowledge of that fact might give some people a more realistic view of Pre's place in track history. What's not to like about that?

haha...

so you admit that you already knew the answer to your question and you just want people to not idolize pre?

is that simply stated and correct for you?

4.27.74 Oregon Twilight 27:43.6 1st; set America Record; 6th in world

6.8.74 Hayward Restoration 12:51.4 1st; set AR; 3rd best in world

he had the 6th best time in the world in the 10k at one point and the 3rd in the 3mi.

Here are INTERNATIONAL RACES...looks pretty good to me...i'll try to find who exactly was in each race too..

International 7/26/70 Moscow 1500 Meters 3:44.9 1st

Bislett Games 8/3/72 Oslo 3000 Meters 7:44.2(AR) 1st

Pre-Olympic 8/24/72 Munich 2 Mile 8:19.4(AR) 1st

Olympic Prelim Heat 9/7/72 Munich 5000 Meters 13:32.6 2nd

Olympic Finals 9/10/72 Munich 5000 Meters 13:28.3 4th

Zauli Memorial 9/13/72 Rome 5000 Meters 13:26.4 2nd

Coca-Cola 9/15/72 London 2 Mile 8:24.8 2nd

International 6/23/73 Helsinki 1500 Meters 3:43.1 3rd

World Games 6/27/73 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:22.4(AR) 2nd

International 6/23/73 Helsinki 1500 Meters 3:43.1 3rd

World Games 6/27/73 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:22.4(AR) 2nd

International 6/18/74 Tampere 3000 Meters 7:55.8 1st

International 6/20/74 Kauhava 3000 Meters 8:00.4 1st

International 6/22/74 Saarijarvi 3000 Meters 8:07.4 1st

World Games 6/26/74 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:21.9(AR) 2nd

International 7/2/74 Milan 3000 Meters 7:42.6(AR) 2nd

International 7/9/74 Varkaus 3000 Meters 7:57.4 1st

International 7/14/74 Joutseno 5000 Meters 13:55.6 1st

July Games 7/18/74 Stockholm 2 Mile 8:18.4(AR) 3rd

International 9/10/74 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:27.4 3rd

Coca-Cola 9/13/74 London 2 Mile Did Not Finish DNF

You love that last one right..

Bedford never did shit outside of London. He was the biggest choker in distance running history.

Olympics? CHOKER Euro Championships? CHOKER

He was also known to be a real wanker.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

Note how Pre's supporters have spent their energies attacking me...

All right Dave, I tried to be subtle about this, but now I'll try a slightly different approach.

First of all, let me establish that I don't have any strong feelings on this subject one way or another. I'm not here to comment on that.

Now that I've made my stance perfectly clear, has it even occurred to you that people (whether they are Pre supporters or not) are reacting angrily towards you because this topics portrays you as an antagonistic jerk, as opposed to someone who is genuinely interested in separating the facts from the myths?

Based upon your holier-than-thou posts that I've seen, I'm sure that the answer is "no."

nope thats not race the answer to the question is YES Steve Prefontaine DID win quite a couple INTERNATIONAL races.

But here is the part where the guy will say those don't count cause he doesn't think anyone "good" was in them...

You're right. I am a holier-than-thou-antagonistic jerk, which is true of a lot of other people on this forum. But at least I have no trouble admitting it. Because you see, unlike the majority of Pre's most ardent fans, I don't have a problem with the truth.

Just wondering something here - if you claim that Pre never beat anyone notable, what exactly is the definition of notable? He came in 4th in the Olympics. If he never beat anyone notable, are the three people who beat him the only ones in the world who are considered "notable"?

By the way, top 5 in the Olympics is this caliber of athlete:

Shawn Crawford (4th in 100 - Athens)

Asafa Powell (5th in 100 - Athens)

Frankie Fredericks (4th in the 200 - Athens)

Wilfred Bungei (5th in the 800 - Athens)

Ivan Heshko (5th in the 1500 - Athens)

Haile Gebrselassie (5th in the 10,000 - Athens)

I've only listed bigger names here, but you get the point.

he was one of the best in the world during his era. nothing more, nothing less.