Yeah Yeah wrote:
Too bad, so sad for the others if the shoe is actually that good, it's called capitalism.
"Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door...” __Ralph Waldo Emerson
Unless we are goin to change the rules so that everyone has to run in the same shoe, some will have better than others. It's called life.
That’s what I say about PEDs. If you can find a better PED more power to you. Isn’t track fun?
Shoe Biomech wrote:
Only two things really matter with the shoe:
1) What is the energy return of the foam
2) What is the vertical displacement of the foam under load
On's shoe will not be the same gamechanger that the Vaporfly was because both 1 and 2 face hard caps. The OG vaporfly already had 87% energy return compared to 65% for the Nike Streak, and obviously that number cannot exceed 100%. Precision steel springs top out at 98% or so; it's hard to believe that other brands haven't already improved on the original vaporfly foam from nearly a decade ago
When it comes to deformation, the WA cap on stack height puts some practical limits on how much the shoe can deform - you absolutely do not want to bottom out the foam, and you only have so much vertical space to work with. So again, vastly diminished returns compared to older racing flats. The Streak 6 had only 16 mm of foam in the forefoot (6 mm deformation); the OG Vaporfly 4% had 21mm and deformed 12 mm. You ain't doubling that again and staying under the WA stack height limit.
Lighter weight is nice, but as of two years ago the Alphafly was both the heaviest and most performant super shoe on the market. Foam and deformation can easily beat out a lighter shoe.
This why many people still come to the message board. At the elite level science wins out.
Hot Takes wrote:
What happens if Obiri gets dusted, does that mean the shoes aren't good? Her best marathon is 2:21, her best marathon on a record eligible course is 2:25. If they are on an honest pace from the gun can she hang with all the sub 2:20 women? I think this is a legitimate question.
It's also the Olympic Games, where Obiri has always come up short against better athletes
Ritz has already wrecked two Koenigsegg Jesko Absoluts.
If the driver ain't good, don't matter the speed of the car.
team Unruly Bush wrote:
It looks like On is really into DEI!
Yes they are! On has 1) really pale white people, 2) pasty white people, 3) paper white people, 4) dirty sheets white people, 5) scruffy bearded white people and 6) one lady.
That's pretty diverse, when all the athletes you bought are dark skinned :)
Shoe Biomech wrote:
Only two things really matter with the shoe:
1) What is the energy return of the foam
2) What is the vertical displacement of the foam under load
On's shoe will not be the same gamechanger that the Vaporfly was because both 1 and 2 face hard caps. The OG vaporfly already had 87% energy return compared to 65% for the Nike Streak, and obviously that number cannot exceed 100%. Precision steel springs top out at 98% or so; it's hard to believe that other brands haven't already improved on the original vaporfly foam from nearly a decade ago
When it comes to deformation, the WA cap on stack height puts some practical limits on how much the shoe can deform - you absolutely do not want to bottom out the foam, and you only have so much vertical space to work with. So again, vastly diminished returns compared to older racing flats. The Streak 6 had only 16 mm of foam in the forefoot (6 mm deformation); the OG Vaporfly 4% had 21mm and deformed 12 mm. You ain't doubling that again and staying under the WA stack height limit.
Lighter weight is nice, but as of two years ago the Alphafly was both the heaviest and most performant super shoe on the market. Foam and deformation can easily beat out a lighter shoe.
Yeah we are talking about an upper method of manufacturing here. Remember this article is written by somebody that I would very much doubt has any real technical knowledge of athletic footwear so has been given a ton of exciting "print bites" by ON's PR team and good on them for that because I can fully understand how this article would resonate and the visual media they released is impressive looking through the eyes of the average punter.
But you have to ask what is this really - it's essentially a tensioned sock attached to the midsole. Yeah it was made by a robot so immediately that's impressive - but it's still a tensioned sock attached to a midsole. It's functionally no different to any laceless knitted upper thats been on the market in the last decade or so apart from a what, 25g weight saving? That's not an innovative game changer. I would doubt if this has any true long-term commercial impact because 1) scaling is tough when you would need hundreds of these uber expensive, single-task robots to run a feasible production line and 2) product market fit - it's a laceless shoe and people, well, people like laces. People like laces so much that nearly every brand that tried a laceless running shoe (Nike, Adi) ended up poking holes in them and giving them laces. It is what it is.
This a "perception of innovation" driver - a classic and well executed marketing play. Good on them - they have a lot of smart people there that know exactly what to do with stuff like this. And hey, the share price responded and that's ultimately what it's all about.
Well, let's see what Rojo defines as a "mockery".
Gold: Eliud Kipchoge who is unarguably the greatest marathoner in history and was already an Olympic and World medalist.
Silver: Feyisa Lilesa who was already a World's medalist and 2:04 marathoner (back when that meant something) and major marathon winner.
Bronze: Galen Rupp who was already an Olympic medalist and would go on to become a major marathon winner.
Those seem like legitimate medalists to me. Even Jared Ward finished 6th (without "Super Shoes) and never did anything again.
Per usual, Rojo makes himself look like a fool. You'd think a "journalist" could actually research a topic objectively and draw conclusions based upon the findings. Not on LRC.
Spray on shoes.
Make D the no rules whatsoever barring wheels and motors. I want to see people run a 1:50 thon in cheetah leg spring loaded hyper shoes.
I see the On/ OAC bots are busy now upvoting/downvoting on this thread to protect their sponsor like they do with all related threads. Not too obvious 🙄
Obiri has said she only raced marathons at NY and Boston because they are hilly and gave her the best preparation for Paris. Of the four marathons she’s run in, she’s won 3.
If she was after a fast time, she could have done that on a flat course. Easily. But she’s said her goal is an Olympic Gold Medal.
The course in Paris is hard and there are no pacemakers. Being able to run a 2:11 in Berlin or London or Chicago isn’t relevant to the Paris Marathon…
Hot Takes wrote:
What happens if Obiri gets dusted, does that mean the shoes aren't good? Her best marathon is 2:21, her best marathon on a record eligible course is 2:25. If they are on an honest pace from the gun can she hang with all the sub 2:20 women? I think this is a legitimate question.
Based on the workouts she's done and what her coach has said, definitely
Need to check what the_secret_shoe IG account says about it
Can we not use the phrase "mechanical doping"? Just use cheating if you think it is cheating.