I upvoted the op for linking the race video. Thank you! Discussion should be based on evidence. This evidence shows that Kerr was in great position yet let himself be passed and swamped, not looking good, but then he wants to pass Giles on the inside, there is space, Giles moves slightly to the inside to block him and Kerr then pushes him and causes the fall. DQ them both, though Giles's fault was by far the lesser, since he had the space to do it, Kerr still being behind at that point. Kerr pushed him and caused them both to fall.
1500 is a basically a lock for him in Paris and he does this.
*Going to make an edit to this one, more than one thing can be true at once.
I had originally praised him for fronting up and contact being part and parcel of the sport but yeah that's pretty stupid - that is not on Giles and what was a big crash that could have ended his Paris campaign and for nothing.
I smile at guys who point out minute nuances in athletes who are running the final 100m of arguably the toughest event physically, oxygen depraved, legs full of lactic acid and come up with "look how Giles moves his elbow those 1.5 inches to initiate contact" - I mean have some of you ever even run these distances?
Yeah Kerr sees a gap and he misjudges how much space there is. Whether or not he is fresher/stronger than Giles at this point of the race (he almost certainly is), Giles has earned his spot ahead of him and provided he doesn't make a conscious (is anything conscious at this moment of the race under the conditions I described above?) step across into space to deliberately impede someone it is up to Kerr to not attempt this move. Like tough luck - don't let guys get ahead of you (though I suspect this was really some retaliation for what happened with 200m to go).
So good on him fronting and racing, but that was dangerous and stupid. Might have cost Giles a spot in Paris and might have cost himself a spot in Paris.
Fair yet nconvincing. Another read: Giles clearly sees Pattison and Burgin to his right. Instead of holding his line and racing for the win, Giles opts to consciously veer left to protect 3rd place, knowing Kerr will likely only have space to pass along the rail.
I watched this as objectively as possible and this definitely doesn't look like Kerr's fault. He has space to accelerate and does but the guy adjacent to him tries to block his pass. Honestly Kerr should challenge the result because he gets screwed here by some bad sportsmanship.
I watched the video. Giles senses Kerr is about to pass him and goes to the rail.
I'm no Kerr fan, but this is not his fault.
Completely disagree. What I see is Kerr trying to get through a space that isn't there and the first contact is to Giles left elbow. From here its the same situation as the infamous Sagan v Cavendish TDF crash - when someone clips and in essence hooks that elbow you simply have to move in that direction to balance yourself - again if people can't grasp this is purely because they have never run in races like this and had this happen to them. If Kerr clipped and hooked back Giles right arm he would have lurched to the right. Well sadly it was his left arm and there is nothing inside except the infield and the rail. Again there is absolutely no chance at this stage of the race Giles has the conscious sense to be like "oh here is someone, let me just lunge across in front of them" - that's not reality, that's keyboard warrior logic.
So that's okay - we can agree to disagree on this and the other point I would make to this, is that if we have almost a situation with almost equal conflicting perspectives on who is in the wrong then the benefit of the doubt goes to the person who earned the better position on the track the other was trying to take - and that was Giles.
End of the day even if Giles was 100% in the wrong - what does that help Josh Kerr if he was put out of Paris? The satisfaction of saying "well at least I wasn't the bad guy in that inconsequential UK trials 800m race". That's like riding a bike and getting hit by a car in the wrong that leaves you a paraplegic - you going to solace yourself with knowledge it wasn't your fault for the rest of your life?
I watched the video. Giles senses Kerr is about to pass him and goes to the rail.
I'm no Kerr fan, but this is not his fault.
Completely disagree. What I see is Kerr trying to get through a space that isn't there and the first contact is to Giles left elbow. From here its the same situation as the infamous Sagan v Cavendish TDF crash - when someone clips and in essence hooks that elbow you simply have to move in that direction to balance yourself - again if people can't grasp this is purely because they have never run in races like this and had this happen to them. If Kerr clipped and hooked back Giles right arm he would have lurched to the right. Well sadly it was his left arm and there is nothing inside except the infield and the rail. Again there is absolutely no chance at this stage of the race Giles has the conscious sense to be like "oh here is someone, let me just lunge across in front of them" - that's not reality, that's keyboard warrior logic.
So that's okay - we can agree to disagree on this and the other point I would make to this, is that if we have almost a situation with almost equal conflicting perspectives on who is in the wrong then the benefit of the doubt goes to the person who earned the better position on the track the other was trying to take - and that was Giles.
End of the day even if Giles was 100% in the wrong - what does that help Josh Kerr if he was put out of Paris? The satisfaction of saying "well at least I wasn't the bad guy in that inconsequential UK trials 800m race". That's like riding a bike and getting hit by a car in the wrong that leaves you a paraplegic - you going to solace yourself with knowledge it wasn't your fault for the rest of your life?
Stupid games by Kerr. Really stupid.
Good point. Do we have the final ruling (and reasoning) by UK Athletics meet officials?
Completely disagree. What I see is Kerr trying to get through a space that isn't there
I refuse to believe anyone could watch that race and suggest Giles didn't leave an enormous gap on the inside; watching it live it looked like one of the safest inside passes you could hope for in the final 100. The fact that it ended in a collision was so surprising that even the commentators suggested Giles blocked Kerr's approach on 'instinct'. Having watched the replay a couple of times, I think Giles just inadvertently veered. Kerr will be pretty pissed about that as he looked like he was finishing very strongly, potentially for the win.
giles certainly moves a bit to the left, but im not sure there was enough room in the first place. might be fit to blame both.
So in this case do we give zero benefit of the doubt to the guy who earned the better spot on the track? (Giles). I have zero doubt Giles moves left because he's bought off balance by Kerr clearly bumping into his swinging left arm (and think about this, under heavy fatigue your primary source of balance is impeded and we are blaming the guy for trying to regain it?).
Look at where Giles runs at the beginning of the home straight. The right side of his lane. And then look where he is at the moment of the crash: the left side of his lane. He definitely blocked Kerr.
giles certainly moves a bit to the left, but im not sure there was enough room in the first place. might be fit to blame both.
So in this case do we give zero benefit of the doubt to the guy who earned the better spot on the track? (Giles). I have zero doubt Giles moves left because he's bought off balance by Kerr clearly bumping into his swinging left arm (and think about this, under heavy fatigue your primary source of balance is impeded and we are blaming the guy for trying to regain it?).
ya hard to say for sure without a perfect camera angle. out of desperation, kerr very well might have taken a line that wasn't really there
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