If Daniel's and Pfitz are outdated..then where do I look for modern training plans?

Thing with a lot of these plans they talk about mileage and basic their training around it, isn’t it Daniels R pave for distance is someone who would run 5min miles?

it’s far better to take these old methods and just convert it to time, especially for road racing.

It the prescribed run or 3 x 15mins at LT it works for a wide reach of runners instead of saying 3 x 3 miles at LT.

Or 20 mile steady long run become say 2 hour steady long run

Mark Coogan's "Personal best running" is a good recent book (published in 2024), with detailed training schedules for the mile, 5K, 10K, half marathon, and marathon, all for various buildup lengths and 3 mileage goals. Nothing revolutionary, but extremely practical.

Modern? 1930s science and Daniels' tables?

And you are lying about all your runners improving. We have 4 verifiable runners we know you coached. They all got slower with you.

Who told you these plans are outdated? You can use the Daniels plan to become elite today.

DANCAN seems to be a bit inflexible. Not able to be adapted to high mileage running and can it even be adapted to those who run every day. DANCAN works by getting overtrained runners back to fitness, but doesn't improve those who are not overtrained. I doubt any junior runner has become an elite senior on DANCAN training.

I don't think you could even lead an NCAA D3 team to success. You're no Renato, quick hawking your training.

They don't talk enough about "zone 2 running", the groundbreaking training concept which has revolutionized the sport. I myself learned about this on the "tik-tok".

The "modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage thread" on this very LRC is probably the best training plan with outside the box thinking and backed up by success, that I have seen in 20 years. Keeps it simple yet comes with advanced and modern thinking as well, applied from other sports. Unless you are actually full elite or have 10+ hours to run a week, that is better than any book you can buy in my opinion and it's free!

Hanson got me below 5 hours finally. It was a great book.

Here's a Pfitzinger Lactate Threshold workout for 10k:

8 miles total

12 min interval followed by 4 min jog recovery

12 min followed by 4 min jog

10 min interval

So you would throw that in after a couple/few miles of general running and then the cool down, which all count toward the total mileage. To me, the actual threshold running doesn't look very long at all, nor does it look different from plenty of other plans, including newer ones mentioned here.

Here's one from Coogan's brand new book, at about the same point in the schedule:

2 mile warmup

2 mile 25-30 second slower than 10k

800m jog

2 miles at 25-30 sec slower than 10k

800m jog

800m 10k pace

2 mile cool down.

Well, you couldn't be more wrong. DANCAN works for everyone who takes it on. Doesn't matter if you are a high or low mileage runner and works perfect on overtrained and undertrained and wrong trained runners as well.

I coached Josphat Kipchirchir after he returned from high school running in USA to become one of Kenya's very best junior cross-country runners and later on an elite senior runner ( so far 27:50 10 k road and 61:10 half.). 🇸🇪🧙🏼‍♂️🇸🇪

4 verifiable athletes, 4 athletes who got slower with your coaching. Go away.

The timeless Lydiard

Jan, you are a fraudster. Have you no shame?

what are some of the ones you don't like or don't think make sense?

Study Bill Squires stuff. Hard to beat his success with marathoners.

Hard to find his book. Squires doesnt get the credit he is due. He wasnt as good at self promotion I guess.

You read it online so it must be true, right? You're looking to break 36, 1:20, and 2:50. You don't need a "modern" training plan to get to those sorts of times. There are thousands of people, maybe more like tens of thousands of people who have gotten times like that with Pfitzinger, Daniels, Lydiard, van Aaken, Joe Henderson, and countless others. There are ,people have run those sorts of times with no plan at all other than to go for a run everyday. If you want to do something that will sound sexy when you're talking with your running friends about what you're doing that's fine but not necessary. I'd imagine that you could find what you're looking for if you read through that big thread here about adapting the Norwegian Method to lower volume. I'd imagine that you could find something that you're looking for that would work even better if you adopted the entire Norwegian Method. But you don't need to do that. You need to run enough and do it consistently with some sort of race like efforts.

You really could not better than taking ideas from Bill. You could do as well with a handful of others. I have that book and I think it's not as widely referenced as some others because for one thing, as you say, Bill was not much of a self promoter. I think another thing is that the format is a bit hard to follow. I don't know where I've put it so I can't double check. But I think the opening chapter is called "How to Use This Book." I can see that as a put off.