FLAGSTAFF GAP YEAR

Wait, so how fast have you actually run? 6:41 for 6 laps is 4:27 pace, which is great... but it's not 9 minutes.

Were you thinking about going to college before you got into running? What were you thinking?

(Without any other data, I'd strongly recommend going to college and making the decision on academics and fit, with running prioritized after that, especially if there's a good school for you that also has a decent program that might let you walk on. But I'm not you, of course.)

I was thinking you probably shouldn't till I read this. Now I think you should do it. A lot of kids want to take off a year because they don't want to do school/don't know what they want to do. But you're using this as a stepping stone to get to a better program, and if you're pulling a 4.5 GPA in advanced classes, you'll be fine going back into classes after a year off. You should find something to do in your free time though. A class at a community college, or some kind of project or something to occupy your time and to further your skills outside of running.

For what it's worth: Abdi Nur came out of high school with a 9:27 PB and wanted to go to NAU (Mike Smith wanted him too), but he didn't qualify academically. So he went to community college for 2 years, got his grades up, trained with some friends in the area, and then got into NAU and became an NCAA record holder, 2x NCAA champion, and US 5000m champion.

Also Graham Blanks took a gap year during Covid and trained in Flagstaff. I think he said all the Harvard guys did it, so different from your situation. Still, he was a nobody coming out of HS and then ran like 13:20 as a 19 year old.

Be sure to read the fine print from the NCAA regarding competition during a gap year and your eligibility clock - it's not as simple as many would like. You would almost certainly want to to have someone guiding your training during that year - coming to Flag and just tagging along with others isn't going to be optimal for advancing your fitness. And probably good to already have schools you're interested in identified, and be in communication with coaches so that they'll know who you are and be looking for your results - otherwise you're likely to just be buried as some anonymous "unattached" runner in various lab results. And maybe have a plan to go somewhere else for the winter - like back wherever home is. Summer and fall are glorious for training in Flagstaff, winter and spring, not quite as much. Finally, definitely consider setting yourself up on some sort of personal growth curriculum that will set you up to be ahead starting school - reading list, coding camp, relevant job, or something else - a year of being a running bum isn't the ideal way to prep for college.

Why not just go to college and continue to develop athletically under the guidance of a knowledgeable coach?

The simple truth of the matter is that you have no idea how you will develop as an athlete after HS. Some people peak in HS. Some people barely improve after HS. Some people improve like crazy after HS. There is just no way to know. Chances are that you won't improve enough to make a living off running.

Your priority should be academics. You should pick a challenging in-demand major in a field that interests you and then just do cross and track at whatever school that has that major at a reasonable price. Then you end up where you end up with your running. But just emotionally be prepared for the fact that like most of us you're probably going to end up having to get a full-time job and not make a living off running. For most of us running is just a fun hobby. For some of us, it helped us pay for college. But you need to make sure you have the right priorities here or you'll regret it when you're older.

Last year as a Junior I’ve run 9:2x and lowered my mile to 4:20 in the early fall. I’m not kidding about being a 9 minute two miler, but time trials aren’t accepted by college coaches as marks of note. Hopefully this gives more insight into my dilemma. Conflicts with my HS prevent me from running with the team, so my best bet for running a mile or 2 mile this season is to run at a college invite and let the conversion speak for itself when applying for stuff like NB or Nike Outdoors. Replicating the result in a race won’t be impossible, but it’s not guaranteed that a 9 flat guy can just run 9 flat or faster each time they toe the line. There are nuances to each and every race. So, when I race next I will obviously be shooting to massively lower my times. Another issue is that 3k isn’t typically run outdoors. Eh, I’ll figure the racing stuff out. Better to look for solutions than problems in this game of life. Also, for the person saying I would live to regret this…I don’t ever think I will regret honestly taking a chance on myself. Getting a job and going to college is A way but not THE ONLY way to make money and be successful-just a thought.

I'm beginning to think you are a hard working troll, but...

Make sure you understand recruiting timeline. The current seniors, Class of '24 already made their commitments in fall 2023 with commitment in November '23, with college acceptance in the early decision period. That's why all the money is gone now.

You won't be able to submit a 5000 from Spring '25, as it will already be too late for you, even with the gap year. You should be making college visits now and up until October '24, if you want to enter college in Fall '25.

As a strong academic student, you have to decide so you want to go to a top academic school like Ivies, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke etc and use running to ensure admittance. Or...go to an easier academic school with top running like Oregon, CU or NAU.

Critical is the times you will be recruited on will be from this '24 spring track season and fall '24 xc. The reason I now think you are a troll, is it appears you have no official time for any distance. Enter some of the big meets in June, at least get an official mile,and 2 mile time (or 1500/3000 etc). 5k less important. 800 useful too.

If you really are a 4:28 9:00 strong academic guy, schools will be interested.

How have you been a member since 1969 lol

Check out Paul Carrozza in Austin TX.
He has a record of taking on people and transforming them. Literally. He gets many HS guys recruited every year, but most noteworthy is the college guys. UT guys would come to him after either getting cut or plateauing and he’d give them their legs back… running faster than any program they were in for college.

He has Chandon who took a gap year (or 2) in college and got training with him for two years, then recruited to TEXAS A&M. He also coaches his son, Crayton Carrozza and in the past Yaseen Abdullah (when he was in HS).

I literally moved from CA to be coached by him for 3+ years and it was the best decision I ever made. I used to be coached by him (female post collegiate) and only moved away for personal reasons but 1000% would go back to him if I could. Austin is also a good place to live, though that wasn’t my reason to move there. My sole reason was to be coached by him and again, 1000% would do it again.

I recently tried an altitude stint in Colorado Springs and what everyone is saying is true: you don’t know how your body will respond to altitude, and you don’t know if you’ll have people to train with. In my case, I did not respond well to altitude at all I did not adjust and reaped the benefits like some people do, and I didn’t have people to train with. With Paul Carrozza you will get TX heat and humidity which is a stressor like altitude, AND always have people to train with.

flotrack.org

Former Collegiate Runners Are Betting On Themselves To Get Back To The NCAA - FloTrack

Cory Mull

A small middle-distance group out of Austin, Texas is taking athletes out of the NCAA and trying to develop them back into the system.

Open link

unix time starts at 12:00 AM Jan 1 1970, and you're probably in a timezone before UTC so it'll show up as 1969 to you. Likely they have their member start time set to 0.

This is simply untrue. Sure the school year ends in December but track season extends thru end of March, then harriers starts up. So there is no gap in the racing.

Stephen Willis, Carl Jackson, Phil "Sprats" Spratley, the McRae twins, Kim Hogarth, Aish never took an intentional gap year. It was just the way academic years played out. Do you think Brits and Irish took gap years?

Nick, I will take your answer off the air.

PS. Should this kid be taking his gap year in Austin, TX rather than Flag since he will more likely be racing in heat & humidity than at 7,000'. How many times did you race at 7,000'?

I would say go to college as well. 9:00 2 mile will get you some offers if you reach out to some good running schools. If you find a really good program, like Providence college, or Villanova, Adam's State, NAU, University of Colorado - they will most likely make you take a red-shirt or 5th year to get the most out of your eligibility at the school anyway. You've already ran fast enough in highschool to get recruited, now it's time to pick a good fit academically, athletically, and financially.

huh, cool. Thanks!

Why does unix time start then? And why would anyone's member start time be set to 0?

this is literally what graham blanks did (during COVID) and he went from a 9:00 2 miler to a 13:27 5000m over the year

this is very possible with a good training group and a coach, bet on yourself

Don't listen to any of these idiots. It most definitely will NOT be a red flag at all. Graham Blanks took a gap year and the Harvard coach was THRILLED he did. A smart coach is not going to be turned off by a fact that kid wants to be great at running. That will turn them on.

Most coaches don't care at all about people wanting to be a student right away. What they want is someone who can help them right away and most 17-year olds most definitely can not do that. BYU is more than happy to get Mormons that are several year olders than everyone else and most of the scholarship schools are happy to get Afridcans that are older as well.

This sounds like a great idea to me. You are 17 and young for your grade. I'd be happy to coach your remotely with John Kellogg.

My concerns are this

1) Where are you going to live?

2) How are you going to eat? What do you plan on doing for meals?

3) Will you have a car?

4) Do you plan on doing anything else besides running? I don't think I"d want my son just runnign and sitting on his a** all day. You need to have a plan to stay pre-occupied.

Most HS seniors aren't ready to live on their own, cook, etc.

the people who try this stuff usually go to a prep school so you are in a structured program with meets, and not thumbing your way into stuff unattached against college kids, while training against yourself. i agree you would undermine your recruitability. you talk to someone interested senior year, oh, good times.....but you want to take a year off? (balloon deflates). they need someone now. they aren't sure what they get in a year.

also, the times you are thinking of, start showing up well into spring. a lot of application deadlines already passed.

i appreciate the cleverness but this would actually be a more effective idea in the summer before cross country or the winter someplace in the southern hemisphere, before coming back for track. or as prep for a college secured in the normal fashion. i went up to colorado for training and a youth select U19 tournament one year before college. it worked great. but i was already going someplace.

the problem with your clever idea is getting anyone to notice what you have done with that year in any meaningful way that doesn't make it come out worse as opposed to better than just graduating normally. and ensuring you don't just turn into a goof off without some sort of structure around you.

If you don't get the big time D1 offers you are probably looking for, you can always go juice after your gap year. Take another two years to develop and if you become a low to sub 14-guy then most schools will take you. Best case scenario you get the offer you're looking for straight out of the year. and if you aren't good after juice, you probably wouldn't have been good in college, and its best you didn't pick a school just for running anyways.

for comparison, in soccer, they play year round, and you can link up with a U19 team that is usually a mix of HS seniors and a sprinkling of last year's graduates. the level of play is above HS ball so it's worthy of scouting. you are trained to fitness by someone else, competing with teammates. your degree of fitness and play is manifest on the field. your team enters leagues and tournaments, you don't have to beg your way into stuff. and you have games from august to may for recruiters to watch. the system is set up for that and you can wave around "gap year" successes and schedule scouting as early as august.

If you think sizzler is the best in flagstaff then obviously you have never been to flagstaff. Or, perhaps that is all you could afford.

if you're thinking of starting classes while on supposed gap year, you may very well burn a year of eligibility.

if you're fast, you'll get recruited where you are, and go from there. no sense doubling down and throwing that away.

if you need work, every so often someone on here proposes running on their own senior year, or doing non-standard events, and it's cute, but generally to me reflects trying to intellectualize their way out of a known sports problem. you want x, you aren't fast enough for x. the happier response to this is move on to y and z where they recruit you. it's not double down and attend x and train and keep begging to walk on. it's not take a gap year and try to beg again next spring. it's go where you are wanted.