Card carrying “Dim” here. I firmly believe trans women should be excluded from women’s sports.
It’s not a left right issue. It’s a fairness issue.
Same goes for me. I got 5th in state in high school for 800, I think three women have run faster than me in the history of the world. I believe that they were all doped and/or intersex.
Not all Democrats support this stuff, perhaps a silent majority don’t.
Don’t care how much time it takes. The bolding of “15-20 mins” wasn’t mine. It’s bollocks that their entire locker room complaint is that it takes a lot of time to put on and Lia just walked past them. The complaint might at least make some sense if Lia sat down ogling at “the show” the whole time, which is how they are behaving as if happened.
You obviously haven't read the lawsuit if you think the complaint is that Thomas "just walked past" naked and semi-naked female swimmers in all the various women's locker rooms and showers he was in.
You seem to regard Thomas as a dainty, delicate, demure, lovely ladylike person whose intrusive, fish-out-of-water presence in a women's locker room and showers could never unnerve someone female simply because of his massive strength and size, obvious maleness and naked dick and balls.
You also seem to seem to assume that Thomas is such a paragon of Victorian-era propriety, politesse and prudery that all the times he was in women's locker rooms, loos and showers full of nubile young women in various states of undress he always took care to keep his eyes discreetly cast down at the floor and his own genitals out of sight - and he never ever threw his weight around.
This just goes to show the diference between the "male gaze" and the "female gaze."
When most women look at Will Lia Thomas, we see a big, strapping, cocky, confident specimen of mighty, muscled-up manliness who measures 6'4 in height, oozes male entitlement and male egotism from every pore, and looks at women with the proverbial "male gaze." We see a man of intimidating, even frightening size and strength who could easily kill any one of us with his bare hands without working up a sweat.
To paraphrase Margaret Atwood's famous line, one of the fundamental differences between the sexes is that "Men go through life afraid that women will laugh at them. Women go through life afraid men will kill them."
Pretty telling that with over 10,000 female athletes, you can only find 16 who are opposed to trans athletes competing.
i could probably find twice as many that say non-US born athletes should be banned from competing.
This “outrage” is a farce. Let athletes compete in the gender that they identify. This is not a fairness issue, it is an equality of participation issue.
You throw out the term equality. Please explain what that means. Equality for whom?
Has anyone read the AP article on the lawsuit? It includes the following paragraph which I HATE.
AP wrote wrote:
Critics contend transgender athletes have an advantage over cisgender women in competition, though extensive research is still generally lacking on elite athletics and virtually nonexistent when it comes to determining whether, for instance, a college sophomore transgender woman has a clear advantage over her cisgender opponents or teammates.
I hate that logic. Guess what. Do we have extensive research saying that giving cocaine to a 2-year old is bad? No we do not. No one has done that study but we all know it to be true. Thomas was like 300th as a man and #1 as a woman.
But I don't care if she has an unfair advantage. If Thomas was #305 as a woman, I still wouldn't want 'her' in the women's division. Thomas is a biological male. Male/female divisions in sports exist because of biology - not gender. "She" is in the wrong category - end of story. If Usain Bolt switched to the female side and won, some might claim it's fair - as he was great before and after. Nope. He would be denying Sha'Carri, SAFP, ETH and others the fame they so much deserve.
I find the whole trans movement to be very misognystic. Before Title IX, it was viewed as "unwomanly" for women to do sports. My mother is a kick ass athlete but she claims she had never sweated in a sports competition before she got married as girls just didn't do that in her small town in Texas. Now we know female athletes can be bad-ass athletes and kick some a**.
Yet we are going to undermine all of that progress by letting some mediocre male athlete dominate NCAAs? No.
Former Kentucky swimmer Riley Gaines was among more than a dozen college athletes who filed a lawsuit against the NCAA on Thursday, accusing it of violating their Title IX rights by allowing Lia Thomas to compete at the natio...
Card carrying “Dim” here. I firmly believe trans women should be excluded from women’s sports.
It’s not a left right issue. It’s a fairness issue.
It is absolutely a left right issue. 100% left.
Not completely. While I'll admit that probably 100% of the people who support transgender women participating in women's sports are on the left, far less than 100% of us on the left support it. I for one do not #sexnotgender
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
correct spelling
Not completely. While I'll admit that probably 100% of the people who support transgender women participating in women's sports are on the left, far less than 100% of us on the left support it. I for one do not #sexnotgender
You are wrong. You probably mean liberal, not left. As one of the tiny handful of transympathetic posters here, I don’t identify as either.
I'm conflicted about this. On one hand, it's unfair for actual women to compete against biological men. On the other hand, the vast majority of college-aged swimmers (or other female athletes) are Democrats, and seeing them reap the results of their policies is enjoyable. It's also funny to see the Democrat intersectionality hierarchy reversed - in the D3 sprinter's case, they were cheering for a white man to take a black woman's spot
What is the Democratic policy you are referring to? I’d also like to point out that most Democrats I know do not support “men in women’s sports” rulings. Yes, there are people on the extreme edge that do, but saying it’s a “democrat policy” is like saying all Republicans are racist, bible thumping, J6 supporting traitors.
Another issue in the lawsuit is the NCAA's "LGBTQ-Inclusive Codes of Conduct," which the NCAA asks all member institutions to impose on their athletes.
The lawsuit says that through this code, the NCAA is attempting to control the views and suppress the free speech of student-athletes - particularly female athletes. The curb on thought and speech falls disproportionately on female student-athletes because they're the ones who have the most reason to critically examine and voice objection to so-called "inclusion" policies that in practice mean colleges and universities forcing female students to accept the intrusion of males into sports and spaces established and originally meant to be single-sex for females only.
Moreover, the lawsuit alleges that NCAA's supposedly "inclusive" code of conduct helps to create and perpetuate a hostile climate within college and intercollegiate sports, at sports events, and on college/uni campuses more generally, for students who might dare to express disagreement with what the lawsuit characterizes as the “radical anti-woman agenda" of today's NCAA.
28. To minimize dissent from its policies which harm women, the NCAAin coordination with its member institutions, including public colleges and universities, has sought to suppress the speech of female athletes by exerting pressure on them and all who resist to enforce a Code of Silence.
29. The NCAA seeks to have college athletics departments impose upon all student-athletes what the NCAA calls “LGBTQ-Inclusive Codes of Conduct” which “outlin[e] consequences for engaging in homophobic and transphobic behaviors” and proclaim offending “language or conduct will not be tolerated.”3
30. The NCAA understands that in some quarters, including on many college campuses, merely standing up for fairness in women’s sports will be labeled “transphobic.”
31. Thus, the NCAA’s “Sample Team Code of Conduct” is a speech code, calculated to chill student-athletes from expressing personal opinions about transgender eligibility in the female category that are contrary to those imposed by the NCAA.
'Objective competitions' refers to swimming, track, basketball, and other sports competitions. The right to privacy refers to changing in locker rooms.
Has anyone read the AP article on the lawsuit? It includes the following paragraph which I HATE.
AP wrote wrote:
Critics contend transgender athletes have an advantage over cisgender women in competition, though extensive research is still generally lacking on elite athletics and virtually nonexistent when it comes to determining whether, for instance, a college sophomore transgender woman has a clear advantage over her cisgender opponents or teammates.
I hate that logic. Guess what. Do we have extensive research saying that giving cocaine to a 2-year old is bad? No we do not. No one has done that study but we all know it to be true. Thomas was like 300th as a man and #1 as a woman.
But I don't care if she has an unfair advantage. If Thomas was #305 as a woman, I still wouldn't want 'her' in the women's division. Thomas is a biological male. Male/female divisions in sports exist because of biology - not gender. "She" is in the wrong category - end of story. If Usain Bolt switched to the female side and won, some might claim it's fair - as he was great before and after. Nope. He would be denying Sha'Carri, SAFP, ETH and others the fame they so much deserve.
I find the whole trans movement to be very misognystic. Before Title IX, it was viewed as "unwomanly" for women to do sports. My mother is a kick ass athlete but she claims she had never sweated in a sports competition before she got married as girls just didn't do that in her small town in Texas. Now we know female athletes can be bad-ass athletes and kick some a**.
Yet we are going to undermine all of that progress by letting some mediocre male athlete dominate NCAAs? No.
'Objective competitions' refers to swimming, track, basketball, and other sports competitions. The right to privacy refers to changing in locker rooms.
Of course. Your words read to me as combining the two in one breath earlier. There is no inherent right to privacy for a woman from other women in a locker room. Lia needs to feel just as safe as cis women.
I initially categorized this as non-running sports related but there is in fact a running element since two of the athletes are involved in NCAA track.
Males who have gone through puberty—even after undergoing hormone suppression treatment—retain a biological advantage over women “which no woman can achieve without doping,” says the suit, which was filed by 16 plaintiffs—including twelve swimmers, two track athletes, one tennis player, and one volleyball player.
One of the plaintiffs in the suit is a female track athlete who has lost out to Sadie Schreiner, a male RIT student who has been winning meets and setting records in women's running this year.
541. On March 3, 2024, Plaintiff Track Athlete A, a Junior, competed in the women’s 200-meter dash in the All-Atlantic Regional Championships in trackand field, where transgender athlete Sadie Schreiner of Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT), a male, won the women’s 200-meter dash and also broke the women’s regional collegiate meet record.
542. On information and belief, Schreiner has broken numerous women’s school and/or conference records and deprived women on Schreiner’s team and on the teams of competitors of placements, points, prizes, awards, and recognition.
543. Schreiner qualified for the Division III national championships in the 200m event.
544. Because Schreiner is an underclassmen Track Athlete A will compete against Schreiner next year.
545. Absent the NCAA Transgender Eligibility Policies which violate Title IX Schreiner would not be eligible to compete in NCAA women’s sports competitions or on the RIT women’s track and field team.
546. Therefore, the NCAA’s Transgender Eligibility Policies have harmed Track Athlete A, causing her to lose placements and points to a male, and the NCAA’s Transgender Eligibility Policies will continue to harm her in the future by causing her to lose competitive opportunities, points, and placements to Schreiner n the future.
Pretty telling that with over 10,000 female athletes, you can only find 16 who are opposed to trans athletes competing.
i could probably find twice as many that say non-US born athletes should be banned from competing.
This “outrage” is a farce. Let athletes compete in the gender that they identify. This is not a fairness issue, it is an equality of participation issue.
You throw out the term equality. Please explain what that means. Equality for whom?
Why is it that right-wingers always need help with elementary-level vocabulary when it comes to this topic?
”what is a woman?” “What is equality?” If you are having trouble knowing the answers to these questions, then I don’t think you are qualified to have the bigger debate.
Assuming you are not asking this question rhetorically, equality means equal access to competition for everyone. It’s why things like Title IX exist. If you ban transgender athletes, that’s not equal.
Right wingers want a utopian sports world where everyone can win. Sorry, that’s not possible. No woman will ever beat a man in a race. Does that mean we should never let any woman run a race again? No. Most people running a race are not going to win it. Most aren’t ever going to win a race ever in their entire lives. We do not have to invent rules to give everyone a chance to win. It is antithetical to the entire notion of sports.
All genders should be combined together. Genetics stratifies outcome more than gender anyway. Elite runners are elite largely because of genetics, hard work is secondary. You don't become an elite runner if the genetic component is not there
Card carrying “Dim” here. I firmly believe trans women should be excluded from women’s sports.
It’s not a left right issue. It’s a fairness issue.
Same goes for me. I got 5th in state in high school for 800, I think three women have run faster than me in the history of the world. I believe that they were all doped and/or intersex.
Not all Democrats support this stuff, perhaps a silent majority don’t.
How much anti-androgen drugs and external estrogen did you take to record those times? And how long did you take them? What was your blood testosterone level?
