2) We need something other than a total DQ. I'd like to see the Columbia runner placed 2nd and maybe Chelimo placed third.
I've always thought it was crazy that track only has one penalty--DQ. There are lots of other ways to think about penalties for minor or inadvertent violations. If Lord Coe can consider foul-less long jumping, how about considering these?
Drift to Lane 4: officials switch the order of finish. In this case, Princeton wins, Columbia 2nd in NT. Could do the same for inadvertent contact where nobody goes down.
Lane violations: some kind of time penalty. 0.1 sec per step on the line? Result is not record eligible, like a wind-aided time.
False start: move blocks back some distance. 1 meter? 2 meters?
And if you don’t have a death penalty, everyone does this crap. You probably will not get called and if you do it is no big deal since you are getting passed anyway. There is some judgement with a say a line as momentum off the turn can encourage going wide, but the guys out in lane 4 are trying to imped their competitor. That isn’t track.
Syed clearly not as blatant as Chelimo. Chelimo in full control of his body is glancing over at his competitors and knowingly trying to force them to the outside. Lasts 100m or so. Syed looks to the inside and Bendsten comes on his outside. Syed’s eyes are down, not looking at Bendsten. With 10m to go he’s still in lane two. It’s only last few meters than he loses control and falls into outer lanes. He has a half stride on Bendsten at that point and would not have lost the race. Chelimo had more control and awareness and it was clearly on purpose. Syed looks like a guy who just gritted everything out of his body he had, after a hard 3k the day before. Don’t see how you can DQ Syed if Chelimo wasn’t.
DQ. Should have been for Chelimo and rightfully so at the Ivy's
USATF Rule 163.3: Each competitor shall run in a direct line after entering the final straightaway in all races of two of more turns unless there is another competitor in his/ her path
Disqualified an athlete in a D2 Conference Championship a couple years ago for doing the exact the same thing
I have never understood why this very clear rule is not enforced. Saying, well it didn't matter is so stupid. The runner thought it would matter or else he wouldn't have been in lane 4!!!!!! It was no accident. The intent was clear. He clearly did not run a direct line and with intent to obstruct the other runner.
And to me, intent is everything. You intend to break the rule, that is a DQ. It doesn't even matter if it truly "worked" or "changed the race". Because you obviously intended it to!!!
It's obvious. They tried their best to cheat and break a clear rule. Why is that OK?
I've always thought it was crazy that track only has one penalty--DQ. There are lots of other ways to think about penalties for minor or inadvertent violations. If Lord Coe can consider foul-less long jumping, how about considering these?
Drift to Lane 4: officials switch the order of finish. In this case, Princeton wins, Columbia 2nd in NT. Could do the same for inadvertent contact where nobody goes down.
Lane violations: some kind of time penalty. 0.1 sec per step on the line? Result is not record eligible, like a wind-aided time.
False start: move blocks back some distance. 1 meter? 2 meters?
Can't do this in the hurdle races without completely screwing up the athletes.
The major difference in these two is the fact that Chelimo's was on an outdoor track. Therefore his move looked much more natural plus his move was a lot more long winded which made it not illegal or cutting off the competition egregiously enough. The Columbia runner did it on a 200 meter banked track and started doing it with nearly 40 meters left in the race, which is a hard cut to the 4th lane which was deserving of a DQ in my opinion.
The men's 5000 finish at the Ivy championships yesterday was similar to the 2021 US Olympic Trials in that the guy who crossed the finish line first - finished in lane 4. The big difference was that Columbia's Talha Syed was DQd, whereas Paul Chelimo was not.
Wow. I dont know how anyone can say those two finishes were the same. Paul can at least claim he was pretty clear of 2nd the whole way, in fact he was extending lead to finish. The guy from Columbia literally cut someone off to win that was coming by him. Same concept, but far more acute and consequential for Ivy. We have said it many times, cycling has this figured out, track needs to have a reasonable rule. Hold your line within 50m of finish? It will always be judgement call just like everything.
Syed clearly not as blatant as Chelimo. Chelimo in full control of his body is glancing over at his competitors and knowingly trying to force them to the outside. Lasts 100m or so. Syed looks to the inside and Bendsten comes on his outside. Syed’s eyes are down, not looking at Bendsten. With 10m to go he’s still in lane two. It’s only last few meters than he loses control and falls into outer lanes. He has a half stride on Bendsten at that point and would not have lost the race. Chelimo had more control and awareness and it was clearly on purpose. Syed looks like a guy who just gritted everything out of his body he had, after a hard 3k the day before. Don’t see how you can DQ Syed if Chelimo wasn’t.
Just my two cents.
Chelimo was running clear of everyone even at finish. This knucklehead saved his day by cutting off the guy in second. Much worse.
Also, maybe the reason Chelimo pulled away at the end is because Chelimo forced his competitors to run 3 extra meters coming down the front straightaway (each lane is 42" wide over three lanes totals 100"+ of total distance) and they fatigued and/ or gave up. Doesn't sound like much distance but clearly played an important role in the race's outcome.
Tell me you don't know the Pythagorean Theorem without telling me you don't know the Pythagorean Theorem!
100 meters long, 3 meters across makes for a hypotenuse of... 100.045 meters.
That's 4 extra centimeters that his competitors had to run.
USATF Rule 163.3: Each competitor shall run in a direct line after entering the final straightaway in all races of two of more turns unless there is another competitor in his/ her path
Poorly written rule. so if you come off the final turn in lane 2 just having taken the lead, you have to stay in lane 2? that puts you at a disadvantage allowing someone to pass on the inside.
another example: if you have a big lead in the 10k, you celebrate on the home stretch veering towards the crowd to wave, you could be DQd by this rule.
Poorly written rule. so if you come off the final turn in lane 2 just having taken the lead, you have to stay in lane 2? that puts you at a disadvantage allowing someone to pass on the inside.
another example: if you have a big lead in the 10k, you celebrate on the home stretch veering towards the crowd to wave, you could be DQd by this rule.
That is the whole point. If you are in lane 2 someone who has the ability to pass you in lane 1 should have that opportunity. It shouldn’t be an option for you to cut them off in lane 1. If the only reason they can’t pass you is you cut them off, that should be against the rules.
In general, I think the we need somewhat contradictory things to happen.
1) If I was the head of WA, I'd issue a proclamation. If you come off the turn in lane 1 in the lead and leave lane 1, you will be DQd. Period. Then we don't have to worry about this moving forward.
Sorry I think Chelimo's was a DQ because he did imped Fisher. Haven't watched the Columbia runners race yet. But it is about impeding the others. If someone tried to do this to me more then likely they would be on the ground. or I simple go inside of them making it clear they need to be dq'd if they try to swerve back inside to block. It's not Nascar.
As for your rule rojo what about Ezekiel Kemboi? would you DQ him for showing off and finishing in lane 8?
While the ruling remains controversial and public opinion leans towards DQ, it is worth noting the remarkable performances by Bendsten and Syed. Both athletes had completed a 3000m race the previous day and managed to finish the last 440 yards of the 5000m in 57 seconds flat. Syed, in particular, emerged from relative obscurity. This weekend marked a significant breakthrough for him. Bendtsen, however, was already an established star, having achieved All-America honors at NCAAXC23 and second-team All-America recognition in the 5000m in 2023. Looking forward to witnessing their rivalry intensify in the upcoming spring season.
The men's 5000 finish at the Ivy championships yesterday was similar to the 2021 US Olympic Trials in that the guy who crossed the finish line first - finished in lane 4. The big difference was that Columbia's Talha Syed was DQd, whereas Paul Chelimo was not.