This is rubbish. A 2:18 is a very good time at 30, a 1:16 half at age 61 is nuts. If the record is 2:00hr-flat for open, he is 18 minutes off of the 2-flat record. Do you think a 61--year-old has 9-10 minutes to give in the half-marathon? You're high.
There is no money at 61 versus 30/open thus the performances can never be considered equal by just a straight comparison against the best time at an age. The day the money is equal through the age ranges I would consider age grades worthwhile, that will never happen so most people who prop up age grades are the older folks who know how hard it is to keep training at a good level for that long (I'm an older person who acknowledges how hard it is and is impressed by good performances!).
You say 2:18 is a very good time at 30 and 1:16 at 61 is nuts, I'd contend both are nuts (nearing 90% of WR is nuts, I know Letsrun may not think so but it is).
Hate to break it to ya but the money factor goes against your argument.
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60 year old French man Jean Bernard Grondin (born July 1963) has run 16:12, 33:09, 2:35:11 (in Valencia, last month), since turning 60. Lives and trains in Nice, France.
Please note, he briefly ran during his army days (all French people used to have to do army service for one or two years), and then following his army service he stopped running completely for many decades and just started back when he was around 40 or older - I'm not sure the exact date. He has hardly slowed down at all since the age of 50 when he really started running well like 31:50 for 10 kilometers, in 2012.
He's originally from the tropical French island of Réunion. He played football up to age 18, and never ran before joining the military. I think he started again in his late 30s or early 40s. That long hiatus served him well to run and race well as a master. He's around 5 foot 7 and just over 110 pounds so he's really built for running. Perfect shape.
Tommy Hugues has a 1:11 half and 2:30 marathon as a 60 year old. In comparison, a 1:16 doesn't seem all that outrageous. It's extremely impressive, but taken alone, doesn't necessarily set off any red flags.
Not in the least. Most people in that age group don’t even jog. Those that train to maximize their potential, are a rare breed.
I have to agree. As a 56 y/o with a recent 1:18 half, I don’t find many age mates that want to train at a level to really try and maximize their potential. The thing age grading and numbers really don’t account for is simply the fact that when you are 60’ish, your training regimen is nothing close to what it was at 30. Your body is not as forgiving. Rest days have to be treated as importantly as workouts, you may need to include plyometrics, stretching/yoga and strength training. I could get away with so much at 30 that today, would get me injured big time. 2:18 is impressive, but 1:16 at 61…wow. Nicely done.
All you 60 year olds go out and try to run for one minute at the pace this dude did for a half marathon. Pretty suspect, but if clean it is mind boggling.
Not in the least. Most people in that age group don’t even jog. Those that train to maximize their potential, are a rare breed.
I have to agree. As a 56 y/o with a recent 1:18 half, I don’t find many age mates that want to train at a level to really try and maximize their potential. The thing age grading and numbers really don’t account for is simply the fact that when you are 60’ish, your training regimen is nothing close to what it was at 30. Your body is not as forgiving. Rest days have to be treated as importantly as workouts, you may need to include plyometrics, stretching/yoga and strength training. I could get away with so much at 30 that today, would get me injured big time. 2:18 is impressive, but 1:16 at 61…wow. Nicely done.
The biggest factor is that max heart rate declines so much with old age, and so does aerobic capacity. To run 5:50 pace when your max heart rate is only 170 is pretty much over the red line from the gun. And they are doing it for 75 minutes straight. In training, 7 minute miles puts you at over 90% max heart rate. How are these guys doing training runs fast enough and consistent enough to get those race results? They gotta be on some good "vitamins."
Voluntarily take a full blown PED test and share the results with LR.
Master runners at your age, running those times, should be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I would pay a fast master at least $500, maybe more, to submit their test results in a locked thread.
You likely have a "prescription" and don't believe you are cheating.
It would probably cost a lot more than that to do the testing. Specialty tests aren't cheap, and you wouldn't get a quantity discount. Maybe ask for a price list?
Voluntarily take a full blown PED test and share the results with LR.
Master runners at your age, running those times, should be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I would pay a fast master at least $500, maybe more, to submit their test results in a locked thread.
You likely have a "prescription" and don't believe you are cheating.
I would certainly chip in to fund this sort of thing. While I'm not overly suspicious of the subject of this thread, there are a few obvious age groupers who are cheating with impunity on the roads and it sucks.
I’m more impressed by the 2:18 marathon he ran at age 30.
Just wait until you're 61 young man.
Sure, I won’t be doing much more than jogging, but my point is there’s no context to what he runs now. It’s a much smaller pond than even ultra running. I will say that putting in that much effort, while being on his 60s, is impressive.
I have to agree. As a 56 y/o with a recent 1:18 half, I don’t find many age mates that want to train at a level to really try and maximize their potential. The thing age grading and numbers really don’t account for is simply the fact that when you are 60’ish, your training regimen is nothing close to what it was at 30. Your body is not as forgiving. Rest days have to be treated as importantly as workouts, you may need to include plyometrics, stretching/yoga and strength training. I could get away with so much at 30 that today, would get me injured big time. 2:18 is impressive, but 1:16 at 61…wow. Nicely done.
The biggest factor is that max heart rate declines so much with old age, and so does aerobic capacity. To run 5:50 pace when your max heart rate is only 170 is pretty much over the red line from the gun. And they are doing it for 75 minutes straight. In training, 7 minute miles puts you at over 90% max heart rate. How are these guys doing training runs fast enough and consistent enough to get those race results? They gotta be on some good "vitamins."
Doing consistent training runs "fast enough and consistent" enough to get good race results is not always necessary. Guys like Ed Whitlock, Herb Phillips, and Francis Burdett, never much of anything but lots of slow running and got excellent results.
Voluntarily take a full blown PED test and share the results with LR.
Master runners at your age, running those times, should be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I would pay a fast master at least $500, maybe more, to submit their test results in a locked thread.
You likely have a "prescription" and don't believe you are cheating.
Well, if you have a prescription for it you probably can get a TUE ,so by definition you aren't cheating. And why should a masters runner with mind blowing performances need to take a full blown PED test if people like Ngetich and Kiptum don't?
Pay for my test plus$500 dollars and you have a deal ! What is considered fast ? I am 58 y o max heart rate 178 . I plan on breaking 5 min for a mile this summer .
Voluntarily take a full blown PED test and share the results with LR.
Master runners at your age, running those times, should be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I would pay a fast master at least $500, maybe more, to submit their test results in a locked thread.
You likely have a "prescription" and don't believe you are cheating.
A lot of guys that age probably take a prescription (like Cialis). When I was in my late 50's my doctor told me to take it whether I needed it or not (for ED). At the time I did not but he said it will help my circulation anyway.
I'm 64, I honestly can't say if I need it or not because that hasn't been a problem for me. But then, I've been taking it for 8 years or so.
Better circulation would translate to better running I suppose.
I have to agree. As a 56 y/o with a recent 1:18 half, I don’t find many age mates that want to train at a level to really try and maximize their potential. The thing age grading and numbers really don’t account for is simply the fact that when you are 60’ish, your training regimen is nothing close to what it was at 30. Your body is not as forgiving. Rest days have to be treated as importantly as workouts, you may need to include plyometrics, stretching/yoga and strength training. I could get away with so much at 30 that today, would get me injured big time. 2:18 is impressive, but 1:16 at 61…wow. Nicely done.
The biggest factor is that max heart rate declines so much with old age, and so does aerobic capacity. To run 5:50 pace when your max heart rate is only 170 is pretty much over the red line from the gun. And they are doing it for 75 minutes straight. In training, 7 minute miles puts you at over 90% max heart rate. How are these guys doing training runs fast enough and consistent enough to get those race results? They gotta be on some good "vitamins."
That's true and it's another thing I think about as I age. I can tell you that I've had my heart rate up to 178-182 and I'm 64. I used the formula:
220-30, - 6 beats per decade after that. That seems to be more accurate for me. It's about 175 for me.
I don't know if being physically fit my whole life has anything to do with my higher max HR.
Voluntarily take a full blown PED test and share the results with LR.
Master runners at your age, running those times, should be considered guilty until proven innocent.
I would pay a fast master at least $500, maybe more, to submit their test results in a locked thread.
You likely have a "prescription" and don't believe you are cheating.
That’s ridiculous. Cheating to run fast in one’s 60s is extremely unlikely.
You're right. It's just pointless. I suppose if someone said that you can cheat for one year and make enough money to live comfortably the rest of your life people would be tempted but that's clearly not the case with master's running.
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