Well first of all the UTMB 100-mile (or rather 106 miles) is a race that has really helped "make" Kilian's and Zach's career over the years. From the films and media and race resume building etc. It's just an iconic mountain line (or rather loop around 15,000' Mt Blanc) and it's beautiful. It is really like the ultimate for European (and international) mountain ultramarathon distance running.
I also think it's easy for someone like Zach (or Kilian) who get selected for the Hardrock 100 race instead to say "oh I don't want to race UTMB this summer" (because of course they can do Hardrock instead!).
Personally I'm interested in races that are "fair." Gaining entry to UTMB is not biased by subjective whims of an unfair/uneven lottery (like Hardrock or the BM100 is). It is clear cut who can gain entry UTMB: they are transparent with the lottery process, gaining entry, and it is way more open and accessible to the common runner (compared to something like Hardrock). It helps to have the capacity for thousands of runners instead of like 80-300 though.
What I'd really like to see is also some more WADA regulated PED testing at all these events though (and ideally surprise testing in the months leading into a championship ultra for the top ranked runners). UTMB has welcomed back a former EPO cheat with open arms and that is more of an issue and attitude that I'm not fond of. Ultrarunning really has a long way to go with organizing that kind of regulation.
Way to dismiss the question and it's implications.
So, you've already expressed your interests in returning to UTMB to Hoka and are planning to cross the picket line.
Remember when your house burned down and the community came out to support you? Where is that sense of community towards others that need it?
Instead, rant on about how you can't get into hardrock. (Maybe they never invite you because you aren't apart of the community.)
No one cares about PED use, Sage. Absolutely zero. There is no significant prize money and no data to support any PED use would help in the mountains. It’s you vs the terrain. I never cared about a soul at Chamonix. Just me.
Well first of all the UTMB 100-mile (or rather 106 miles) is a race that has really helped "make" Kilian's and Zach's career over the years. From the films and media and race resume building etc. It's just an iconic mountain line (or rather loop around 15,000' Mt Blanc) and it's beautiful. It is really like the ultimate for European (and international) mountain ultramarathon distance running.
I also think it's easy for someone like Zach (or Kilian) who get selected for the Hardrock 100 race instead to say "oh I don't want to race UTMB this summer" (because of course they can do Hardrock instead!).
Personally I'm interested in races that are "fair." Gaining entry to UTMB is not biased by subjective whims of an unfair/uneven lottery (like Hardrock or the BM100 is). It is clear cut who can gain entry UTMB: they are transparent with the lottery process, gaining entry, and it is way more open and accessible to the common runner (compared to something like Hardrock). It helps to have the capacity for thousands of runners instead of like 80-300 though.
What I'd really like to see is also some more WADA regulated PED testing at all these events though (and ideally surprise testing in the months leading into a championship ultra for the top ranked runners). UTMB has welcomed back a former EPO cheat with open arms and that is more of an issue and attitude that I'm not fond of. Ultrarunning really has a long way to go with organizing that kind of regulation.
Appreciate your comments, and agree 100%. Just out of interest, can you think of any examples of races that UTMB has forced out of business or bullied into joining their series? I know there's a rumour that UTMB/Ironman 'stole' the race in Whistler, however I have seen no evidence that this actually happened. And all the evidence I have seen suggests quite the opposite. So are there other examples apart from this one?
All I'm seeing here are conspiracy theories from folk who've decided UTMB/Ironman is an evil corporation with a masterplan to control the sport. If this is the case, where's the evidence? There are thousands of ultras in the world and UTMB has only 40 in it's series - and not all of those races are 'owned' and 'controlled' by UTMB-Ironman, they are simply partnerships.
As a Canadian working in France I've noticed a huge difference between the trail racing culture/ideology of North Americans ('mom and pop' as some call it) and that in the Alps. Big commercial trails races in the Alps are nothing new, and the idea of a 'world series' is also an old one.
So I'm still in the dark as to the reason for this boycott, and would love to know if there are any precedents for this in other sports? As someone who has followed this race from it's early days, for me UTMB has had an overwhelmingly positive impact on the ultra running scene so far. There have been no recent changes to dispel this belief.
Although I agree that they should fall into line with WA and WADA, rather than creating their own rules on doping etc.
Appreciate your comments, and agree 100%. Just out of interest, can you think of any examples of races that UTMB has forced out of business or bullied into joining their series? I know there's a rumour that UTMB/Ironman 'stole' the race in Whistler, however I have seen no evidence that this actually happened. And all the evidence I have seen suggests quite the opposite. So are there other examples apart from this one?
All I'm seeing here are conspiracy theories from folk who've decided UTMB/Ironman is an evil corporation with a masterplan to control the sport. If this is the case, where's the evidence? There are thousands of ultras in the world and UTMB has only 40 in it's series - and not all of those races are 'owned' and 'controlled' by UTMB-Ironman, they are simply partnerships.
As a Canadian working in France I've noticed a huge difference between the trail racing culture/ideology of North Americans ('mom and pop' as some call it) and that in the Alps. Big commercial trails races in the Alps are nothing new, and the idea of a 'world series' is also an old one.
So I'm still in the dark as to the reason for this boycott, and would love to know if there are any precedents for this in other sports? As someone who has followed this race from it's early days, for me UTMB has had an overwhelmingly positive impact on the ultra running scene so far. There have been no recent changes to dispel this belief.
Although I agree that they should fall into line with WA and WADA, rather than creating their own rules on doping etc.
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Anybody who is familiar with Vail Resorts has seen this before.
Vail Resorts is interested in a big relationship with Ironman/UMTB for all of their 40+ resorts. The snow is not getting more so they need some fancy activities for the warmer month of the year.
Collins Debden is a leading diary and stationery supplier. We have the essential stationery needs for your home office, school or office. Buy Day Planners, Business Diaries, Organisers and Notebooks online.
The email doesn't go into specifics but that's likely because the concerns about the direction UTMB is heading are widely known and openly discussed within the trail running community. Many of the athletes who were contacted are likely involved in the pro trail runners union and thus actively participating in discussions about what isn't working with UTMB and what needs to change.
While it might seem like the letter is lacking context and asking for action without any substance to back it up, that's most likely because we're not the intended recipients of the letter and thus we're missing the shared context. Anyone claiming to be oblivious to the concerns about UTMB is either self-serving, extremely privileged, disinterested in the environment or unable to read.
Names himself "some context" and proceeds to provide zero context. Your post is literally useless.
Well first of all the UTMB 100-mile (or rather 106 miles) is a race that has really helped "make" Kilian's and Zach's career over the years. From the films and media and race resume building etc. It's just an iconic mountain line (or rather loop around 15,000' Mt Blanc) and it's beautiful. It is really like the ultimate for European (and international) mountain ultramarathon distance running.
I also think it's easy for someone like Zach (or Kilian) who get selected for the Hardrock 100 race instead to say "oh I don't want to race UTMB this summer" (because of course they can do Hardrock instead!).
Personally I'm interested in races that are "fair." Gaining entry to UTMB is not biased by subjective whims of an unfair/uneven lottery (like Hardrock or the BM100 is). It is clear cut who can gain entry UTMB: they are transparent with the lottery process, gaining entry, and it is way more open and accessible to the common runner (compared to something like Hardrock). It helps to have the capacity for thousands of runners instead of like 80-300 though.
What I'd really like to see is also some more WADA regulated PED testing at all these events though (and ideally surprise testing in the months leading into a championship ultra for the top ranked runners). UTMB has welcomed back a former EPO cheat with open arms and that is more of an issue and attitude that I'm not fond of. Ultrarunning really has a long way to go with organizing that kind of regulation.
Classic Sage post: longest post in the thread + zero substance.
Appreciate your comments, and agree 100%. Just out of interest, can you think of any examples of races that UTMB has forced out of business or bullied into joining their series? I know there's a rumour that UTMB/Ironman 'stole' the race in Whistler, however I have seen no evidence that this actually happened. And all the evidence I have seen suggests quite the opposite. So are there other examples apart from this one?
All I'm seeing here are conspiracy theories from folk who've decided UTMB/Ironman is an evil corporation with a masterplan to control the sport. If this is the case, where's the evidence? There are thousands of ultras in the world and UTMB has only 40 in it's series - and not all of those races are 'owned' and 'controlled' by UTMB-Ironman, they are simply partnerships.
As a Canadian working in France I've noticed a huge difference between the trail racing culture/ideology of North Americans ('mom and pop' as some call it) and that in the Alps. Big commercial trails races in the Alps are nothing new, and the idea of a 'world series' is also an old one.
So I'm still in the dark as to the reason for this boycott, and would love to know if there are any precedents for this in other sports? As someone who has followed this race from it's early days, for me UTMB has had an overwhelmingly positive impact on the ultra running scene so far. There have been no recent changes to dispel this belief.
Although I agree that they should fall into line with WA and WADA, rather than creating their own rules on doping etc.
Keep selling your notebooks.
Anybody who is familiar with Vail Resorts has seen this before.
Vail Resorts is interested in a big relationship with Ironman/UMTB for all of their 40+ resorts. The snow is not getting more so they need some fancy activities for the warmer month of the year.
That's an interesting thought. That would make sense, if UTMB/Ironman was partnering with multiple races in Vail Resorts' chain of mountain resorts. Are they doing this?
That's an interesting thought. That would make sense, if UTMB/Ironman was partnering with multiple races in Vail Resorts' chain of mountain resorts. Are they doing this?
This is just speculation on my side but I know VR too well. This is a trifecta of big bullies. They will do well together.
No one cares about PED use, Sage. Absolutely zero. There is no significant prize money and no data to support any PED use would help in the mountains. It’s you vs the terrain. I never cared about a soul at Chamonix. Just me.
# UltraRunnerMag 2nd Ranked back in the day.
Is that you Jeff?
If so I do remember you being quite vocal about *not* wanting PED testing for top ranked runners in a certain email thread. Now why would that be?
Dopers are like course cutters. They are cheaters that don't follow the rules and they are living a lie.
Jeff Browning is the second ranked runner in 2018. Browning had an impressively consistent year, winning three 100-milers, placing third at Run Rabbit Run and fifth at Western States. A graphic artist, gear designer and runni...
Kilian is Kilian. He doesn’t need UTMB wins to add to his resume. He has 4. As for Zach, well it’s funny how once an American male won, all the American males are now looking to boycott UTMB.
This all kicked off because of that Whistler race, which well, if you lose the permit to hold your race, that’s now UTMB’s fault? Maybe take it up with the local authority that hand out the permits.
Literally no trail runners outside of USA/Canada care about this “boycott”. For the rest of the world UTMB put on large scale, well organised events that are usually pricey but also the main event in that particular country/regions race calendar. I’m in Australia and no one else has even heard of this boycott and everyone I know who has secured an entry to one of the races is going.
I didnt think my post was worded in a way to cause such strong feelings, however this subject is stirring enotions, so let me clarify.
The context I was endeavouring to provide wasn't about why UTMB is seen to be problematic but rather why Killian and Zach likely didn't list their reasons for considering a boycott.
I was speculating as to what they were thinking when they wrote the letter (I neither know them, nor received the letter. I'm just a fan) and so I'll continue speculating on why they are considering boycotting UTMB. These speculations are based on general concerns in the community plus the causes that they have publicly spoken about.
* The involvement of Ironman in UTMB and the affect that is having on the landscape of trail races. This has been covered in this thread already but if you want to read up more I'd start by googling the controversy surrounding the new Whistler by UTMB race.
* The firing of Corrine Malcolm who is widely liked within the trail running community and who is by far the best commentator on the UTMB English language stream. I can imagine they would be disappointed in this because they personally like her, but also because it will greatly dimish the UTMB experience for fans at home.
* (Possibly contrary to what Sage suggested earlier) The entry process for UTMB is not ideal for all "common runners." Lottery based entry systems are misaligned with efforts to create more diverse starting lines because they reward people who have the time and money to enter more qualifying races. This isn't ideal for getting more women or people of colour onto the starting line of UTMB. This is particularly problematic when combined with the point about the partnership with Ironman and the gobbling up of local races under the UTMB brand, as this has often (always?) lead to an increase in entry fees.
* The title sponsor for UTMB in 2023 was a car manufacturer called Dacia. Killian is quite open about his concern for the environment and his desire to limit air travel to attend races. I'm confident he'd find it incongruous to have a car manufacturer sponsor an event whose livelihood is dependant on the ongoing health of the environment.
This is a starter pack of reasons why people in the trail community are concerned about the direction UTMB is taking. Killian and Zach have been active in public discussions of these concerns. If you're keen to learn more, Google is your friend!
This all kicked off because of that Whistler race, which well, if you lose the permit to hold your race, that’s now UTMB’s fault? Maybe take it up with the local authority that hand out the permits.
Literally no trail runners outside of USA/Canada care about this “boycott”. For the rest of the world UTMB put on large scale, well organised events that are usually pricey but also the main event in that particular country/regions race calendar. I’m in Australia and no one else has even heard of this boycott and everyone I know who has secured an entry to one of the races is going.
Probably because most of the popular euro races partnered with UTMB before the corporate changes were made. Elsewhere, UTMB had little foothold and is changing that by whatever means necessary.
I get it. UTMB is and has been a big deal. Most people aren't directly impacted by UTMB's seemingly hostile takeover of the sport. There are nuances to this that people with very limited sight can see or will allow themselves to acknowledge as a problem.
Just keep supporting the system that shrinks the market to a monopolized one size fits all experience for everyone.
This all kicked off because of that Whistler race, which well, if you lose the permit to hold your race, that’s now UTMB’s fault? Maybe take it up with the local authority that hand out the permits.
Literally no trail runners outside of USA/Canada care about this “boycott”. For the rest of the world UTMB put on large scale, well organised events that are usually pricey but also the main event in that particular country/regions race calendar. I’m in Australia and no one else has even heard of this boycott and everyone I know who has secured an entry to one of the races is going.
Probably because most of the popular euro races partnered with UTMB before the corporate changes were made. Elsewhere, UTMB had little foothold and is changing that by whatever means necessary.
I get it. UTMB is and has been a big deal. Most people aren't directly impacted by UTMB's seemingly hostile takeover of the sport. There are nuances to this that people with very limited sight can see or will allow themselves to acknowledge as a problem.
Just keep supporting the system that shrinks the market to a monopolized one size fits all experience for everyone.
I mean it is possible to have it both ways. In Australia where we have the second biggest race globally behind UTMB, local organisers have multiple races that take place on different parts of the same UTA course. All are well supported. This is probably why no one cares.
I didnt think my post was worded in a way to cause such strong feelings, however this subject is stirring enotions, so let me clarify.
The context I was endeavouring to provide wasn't about why UTMB is seen to be problematic but rather why Killian and Zach likely didn't list their reasons for considering a boycott.
I was speculating as to what they were thinking when they wrote the letter (I neither know them, nor received the letter. I'm just a fan) and so I'll continue speculating on why they are considering boycotting UTMB. These speculations are based on general concerns in the community plus the causes that they have publicly spoken about.
* The involvement of Ironman in UTMB and the affect that is having on the landscape of trail races. This has been covered in this thread already but if you want to read up more I'd start by googling the controversy surrounding the new Whistler by UTMB race.
* The firing of Corrine Malcolm who is widely liked within the trail running community and who is by far the best commentator on the UTMB English language stream. I can imagine they would be disappointed in this because they personally like her, but also because it will greatly dimish the UTMB experience for fans at home.
* (Possibly contrary to what Sage suggested earlier) The entry process for UTMB is not ideal for all "common runners." Lottery based entry systems are misaligned with efforts to create more diverse starting lines because they reward people who have the time and money to enter more qualifying races. This isn't ideal for getting more women or people of colour onto the starting line of UTMB. This is particularly problematic when combined with the point about the partnership with Ironman and the gobbling up of local races under the UTMB brand, as this has often (always?) lead to an increase in entry fees.
* The title sponsor for UTMB in 2023 was a car manufacturer called Dacia. Killian is quite open about his concern for the environment and his desire to limit air travel to attend races. I'm confident he'd find it incongruous to have a car manufacturer sponsor an event whose livelihood is dependant on the ongoing health of the environment.
This is a starter pack of reasons why people in the trail community are concerned about the direction UTMB is taking. Killian and Zach have been active in public discussions of these concerns. If you're keen to learn more, Google is your friend!
This is correct, from what I've seen and heard in the 'fandom'. These are indeed the arguments that Jornet and Miller may be using to justify the proposed 'boycott'. However, all those arguments you've presented above are either very biased and hypocritical, or based on speculation rather than facts.
I'm pretty certain that if Kilian proposed the earth was flat, his fans would back him up. But you can't choose your own facts.
It would have been useful to provide context in the email, right? From what I've heard and read, this email was sent by Miller and Jornet to athletes they've never met.
* The title sponsor for UTMB in 2023 was a car manufacturer called Dacia. Killian is quite open about his concern for the environment and his desire to limit air travel to attend races. I'm confident he'd find it incongruous to have a car manufacturer sponsor an event whose livelihood is dependant on the ongoing health of the environment.
I don't think so? His partner, Emelie, has promoted Kia and SEAT. What percentage of ultra runners don't own cars? I'm an environmentalist and I own old cars. I just don't put a lot of miles in them (under 1,000 miles the last few years). Dacia Spring was voted "greenest car" in 2022. Is there something I'm missing?
* The title sponsor for UTMB in 2023 was a car manufacturer called Dacia. Killian is quite open about his concern for the environment and his desire to limit air travel to attend races. I'm confident he'd find it incongruous to have a car manufacturer sponsor an event whose livelihood is dependant on the ongoing health of the environment.
I don't think so? His partner, Emelie, has promoted Kia and SEAT. What percentage of ultra runners don't own cars? I'm an environmentalist and I own old cars. I just don't put a lot of miles in them (under 1,000 miles the last few years). Dacia Spring was voted "greenest car" in 2022. Is there something I'm missing?
Even more interesting is that Kilian was sponsored by Mercedes-Benz and Volvic spring water until recently. His concern for all the environment has only come about since he parted company with Salomon and went into collaboration with Spanish shoe company Camper and launched a 'green' and 'sustainable' shoe brand called NNormal.
Also interesting, a lot of the money Dacia put into UTMB has gone into improving the transportation planning for spectators and competitors. In particular, providing a new shuttle bus service to prevent traffic jams.
