All of the D3 schools mentioned here will cost 80k per year. It is FOOLISH to spend that amount of money when you can possibly attend college for free between academic and athletic scholarships at Division 1 schools.
The insinuation that only D3 programs prioritize academics is a MYTH.
She is just as likely to get an academic scholarship at a D1 school as a D3 school. She will not earn an athletic scholarship with her times. He hasn't disclosed their family income or assets so we don;t know what type of discount she will receive.
She is just as likely to get an academic scholarship at a D1 school as a D3 school. She will not earn an athletic scholarship with her times. He hasn't disclosed their family income or assets so we don;t know what type of discount she will receive.
The top academic d3 schools that were mentioned don't offer any academic scholarships. Why would Johns Hopkins or Williams offer an academic scholarship when you can be rejected even with a 1600 on the SAT?
But they do offer fat need based aid. Most of the team at those schools are paying well less than $20K/year. Still a bundle, but not nearly what one would assume from the $80K price tag. For families who make significantly less than $100K/year it can be almost free.
But they do offer fat need based aid. Most of the team at those schools are paying well less than $20K/year. Still a bundle, but not nearly what one would assume from the $80K price tag. For families who make significantly less than $100K/year it can be almost free.
That's not true either. Most members of those teams are paying full tuition.
4.2 GPA with 1400-1450 will not get accepted to those schools if they have to pay her 60k+ per year to attend. The schools boast they meet the demonstrated need of their students but their dirty secret is they just won't admit those students.
At a school like Williams or Hopkins, you can be accepted with much lower grades than their averages if you are paying full tuition. If you are receiving 60k per year in financial aid, you damn well better have perfect GPA, perfect SAT scores, and something special that sets you apart like you sail the ocean on weekends and collect millions of tons of trash each year.
Those coaches have a small number of recruiting slots they can use, but they would not be using them on 2:23 runners who might run 2:17. They will use them on cross country specialists that are under 18 min for full 5k on a hard xc course.
I know this because my wife works in financial aid at one of those D3 private schools (not one of the ones brought up here). We both believe those schools are a scam - she sees so many smarter students get rejected in favor of rich students because the school isn't willing to pay that much in financial aid. But she stays there because she is getting paid very well and we will qualify for tuition exchange for our children.
My daughter is a senior with similar 10th grade times and went through the recruiting process. Spoke with many non-big name D1s (non P5s) and the top D3s. Ended up at a top NESCAC as a recruited athlete.
For D3, you should look at Pomona and the CMS programs. Pomona women had an off year but have been strong the past 5-ish years. We really really liked the CMS coach and her program is on fire. However, as a STEM kid, Mudd was the obvious choice for that team, but my kid didn't love Mudd, so she didn't end up committing there. Carleton is another great option (won D3 XC this year). Haverford and Swarthmore are not quite as strong, Hopkins is always strong, but it felt like a factory to us, churning through runners; not a vibe we really liked. NYU is also very strong (sort of out of nowhere). Emory & Vassar on the rise. In NESCAC, Williams, Middlebury, and Amherst are the top running schools. Amherst brought in the coach from Brown about a week before school started so that transition may have had a slight negative impact on the women's team performance this year - due to the transition itself, not the coach. I have heard good things about her. I know one strong recruit they have coming for next year from NJ. Williams M/W operate as one team for practice/travel, which is important to some.
D1, look at William & Mary, Davidson, Rice, Lehigh, BU, Colgate. Depending on her progression, if she's in the low 5:0x, sub 2:15, sub 10:50 the Ivys are a possibility.
My daughter ran 2:14/4:53 last spring as a junior and she scored a 33 on her ACT. She did extensive outreach and research. The highly selective schools wanted us to pay $85K due to our savings even though we don't have large incomes. She was offered some tiny scholarhips at a few no-name schools but ended up signing with our in-state Big 10 school. She will receive an academic scholarship and she will get free books as a recruited athlete. It wasn't one of her top choices but we will pay only about $20K per year.
I know this because my wife works in financial aid at one of those D3 private schools (not one of the ones brought up here). We both believe those schools are a scam - she sees so many smarter students get rejected in favor of rich students because the school isn't willing to pay that much in financial aid. But she stays there because she is getting paid very well and we will qualify for tuition exchange for our children.
As a parent you need to work on doing less and letting her do all the heavy lifting. She should do the research, the communication, and about 99% of everything in this process.
I totally agree, thank you Coachy. My parental goal is to understand at least enough to have the context for other information. We may understand sports a little, but sports in college have dynamics I am only hearing about for the first time. I suspect one program or other will come into focus as a realistic goal, and maybe others as a stretch goal.
I doubt that. My daughter is paying $65K at Princeton and she told me that she feels like the poor girl on the team.
I see you mentioned you have 3 that have gone through this. Do you regret sending her there? Why splurge to feel inferior?
As a child we lived near a large university and had a professor who attended Harvard and other academics from prestigious schools around the family friend circle. Most voiced it was best to use college to find your interests then spend your resources on the best masters program you could afford.
There is money out there for girls.. Here are facts about my daughter a current sophomore running low level div 1.... HS pr's Jr year ( which is where scholarships come from )
3200-10:50-10:55
1600- 4:58
800 2: 18
5K TRACK 17:45-17:50
Narrowed her schools to three all were above 80 % scholarship when you combined academic and athletic ( very good student as well) with athletic being 50 -60% .
Settled on a school that using rough numbers was $50, 000. Got $30,000 athletic and $12,000. academic It was not the best offer/ cheapest option for her but the fit she wanted.
Granted these were not power 5 schools but they had $$ to offer.
What schools made those offers? I am very curious since my daughter was faster but did not find any schools offering anywhere that much and she contacted many schools.
No. She loves it and has made some good friends already. She doesn't feel inferior by being poorer than her teammates. Her older sister and brother were national merit finalists so they both chose schools where they paid nearly nothing. They were both decent D1 runners too. Our daughter didn't have the same options in terms of cost. We save a lot of money for college and didn't use much for first two. We gave them each $50K as graduation gifts and we have about $400K remaining. We will be able to easily pay for the education of our youngest daughter.
So all 3 of your kids ran in college? Any comparisons of the experiences? Running is great and teaches discipline, but it's not the end goal of college for us or her.
Let your daughter lead the way on this. She can narrow down school choices.
I agree--she's D1 material. maybe not NC-State material, but D1 material nonetheless. That being said, if she wants to go D3 then she can do that too.
What does she want to get out of a team? It sounds like she wants to go to a school with top academics. Does she want to be top dog on the team? Contribute and work her way up, or be a small fish in a big pond?
She can determine the "health" of a team on recruiting visits. She should check for eating issues and how everyone gets along.
Northeast is where a lot of these top academic D3 programs are, but the weather is dreadful-hot and humid summers, cold winters. Sometimes weather is a factor in choice, and for a Californian I'd imagine she'd want to think a little about this.
The only thing correct in his response was that you need to be be cautious about believing things that people tell you. You will find that your daughter will receive no scholarship offers. You can believe him or believe me but will find out on your own. My daughter is a freshman at Princeton. She ran 2:25/4:55 in high school and received no scholarship offers despite contacting about 50 coaches of which the majority were mid majors. She also contacted Johns Hopkins, Wash U, and U of Chicago.
I'm assuming 4:55 is 1500 and those times are great but not going to receive any offers.
I like your perspective. Since the talents and aspirations are not Olympic, college is prep for a great career and maybe a running club. On a family trip we overlapped with a D1 invitational at Duke. Met a dad there whose son was running on full scholarship. He shared infinite wisdom, it was very helpful. His son is walking straight out into a job. After years of 1500's he had the academic support to be an amazing student even on the road.
A college running friend produced a daughter who is a next-level talent. She is running D1 on full scholarship and loves it. Yet somehow there is major variability to outcomes, including those described on this thread.
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