can we please turn this into a Michael Bautista bashing post? Please? I've had that kid blocked on AIM since like 1999, back when he was trying to bust a nut to pictures of his old teammate from McLean, VA, James Small.
Dragonblades or something like that...
I think a lot of Letsrunners could stand to lighten up and enjoy the sport a little bit more.
Ramzi's double feat is both incredible and feasible. In fact it's more likely to see a sudden jump in an athlete's progression than not.
Linear improvement assumes the coach and athlete have all the answers from the beginning. Never the case. Without being unusually lucky it's going to take several years of trial and error to strike on the right training combination, and I imagine tweaks are made right up until the end of an athlete's career.
For example:
-some will thrive on Lydiard, while some will dive on Coe, not to mention Daniels et. al
-maybe long runs lead to breakthroughs, maybe they break you down
-perhaps it's plyos/weights you're missing
-could be Speed Kills, Zuzu's Petals, or Renato gives an insight tomorrow that gels the whole program
Point being, I bet the super elite would all say that when they got to the top it was after years of experimentation whereupon they learned to eliminate all but the most essential ingredients of their training.
It's feasible to a point, but when you look at Bahrain's cynical view toward rules you veer toward the obvious. A jump in nationality is generally not the springboard to a more prosporess future.
Vipam I like your post I think it is good we have someone with a little guts on here. Many of us Dads and coaches in the Youth ages of USATF have been screaming about the age cheating for a few years now. We even talked to the runners and they admit they were told just to shut up about it. Then we started looking at all these times and junior runners. As you have said things are not right here. In Highschool, across USA, we have over aged runners out there coming up, some ran this year. If we say anything then we are accused of being ..well you know.
Not to take anything away from Rachid Ramzi's performance, but many of you are forgetting that the '05 fields in the 800 and 1500 were the weakest seen in years.
He went from being almost completely looked over to being the center of a national team. Of course he would get much faster. If anyone doubts that he was not treated well in Morocco, look for interviews where Ramzi comments on his former teammates. Does anyone remember why he did his run into the stands in the 1500 rounds in '05? It was to slap back at Ka'ouch, former "teammate."
For those who say, 'but Bahrain is taking average (sic) runners and making them very good,' ask yourself this: What happens within a nation when they give more emphasis to sports and organization? Why did Kenya have their boom of athletes? Why Ethiopia?
The booms were results of simply taking the sport more seriously and not only seeking out talent, but putting more effort into developing it. Ramzi could have been like those kids on unorganized high school teams that run 10 miles a week and run 4:15 or 4:20. They can go to top level colleges and then make huge gains. They had talent that was just resting and undeveloped for years. Then someone decided not to ignore it.
I hereby nominate 143man as poster of the week. Excellent stuff...
Oh I should mention the runners I speak of are all from another country. Its a joke.
At the end of the day, you can't accuse the f***ing africans of cheating, even when they're running for f***ing asian countries. f*** the f***ing lot of them.
huh? wrote:
El Guerrouj improved from a 3:43.54 runner in 1994 to a 3:31.16 in 1995. That's 12 seconds bub.
I never said that his double was crap, and certainly you would agree that Dibaba's double is probably a lot better given the competition she ran against and the times posted, right? My point was that the 800 has been really soft the last two years with hardly anyone breaking 1:44 last year! And the 1500 - hardly anyone breaking 3:30. In the final, he didn't have any of the top Kenyans or Lagat to contend with. I know it's their fault for being tactical imbeciles but at the same time it also means he had a less quality field to deal with. Look at the other medals duh.
I really think he is on drugs based on other things, but you can't make a compelling case based on time progressions is what I am saying.
you know, you guys are so classic, and its soooo easy to burn you guys because you just talk absolute crap and make stuff up.
Hichem El G.
1500 m
Outdoor Alltime
1994 3:33.61 3 Nikaïa Nice 18 Jul
1995 3:31.16 1 Weltk Köln 18 Aug
1996 3:29.05 1 VD Bruxelles 23 Aug
1997 3:28.91 1rA WK Zürich 13 Aug
1998 3:26.00 WR1 GGala Roma 14 Jul
1999 3:27.65 1 WC Sevilla 24 Aug
2000 3:27.21 1rA WK Zürich 11 Aug
2001 3:26.12 1 VD Bruxelles 24 Aug
2002 3:26.89 1 WK Zürich 16 Aug
2003 3:28.40 1 VD Bruxelles 5 Sep
2004 3:27.64 2 WK Zürich 6 Aug
hmmmn, your 3.43.54 1500m looks about 11 seconds out BUB. Whats hilarious, is that you appear to have even made up decimals to the hundreth!!! Incredible the crap you guys come up with!
In fact youre comments are now even more ridiculous than Michael B's. A soft mens 800m???
In the mens 800m final, Ramzi beat the current; OLYMPIC CHAMPION - Borzakovskiy, (the then) WORLD CHAMPION - Said Guerni, AFRICAN CHAMPION - William Yiampoy, and Wilfred Bungei (no.1 last year and 1.42 man (5AT?)) and Behdi Baahla (1.43.15)... and thats AFTER 3 races in the 1500m, which granted wasnt the strongest 1500m field ever, BUT is still a World final. Regardless, its 6 races in 8 days. Not happening pal.
And dont make me laugh with Kelly Holmes comparisons - if any of you think the level in depth and difficulty between womans MD and mens MD is in any way comparable, then you guys really are stupid.
oh, and by the way - ....NEXT
Ramzi is scum and a cheat and no amount of fabricated crap any of you come up with can explain how you go from being at a level which wouldnt even win a NCAA title to World Leader, and double World Champion in what are the 2 deepest and competitive events in mens track, and therefore arguably in mens sports.
I have a disease...and the only cure is more ROIDS.
But I'm sure the Right Reverend Michael Bautista has sucked his cock and has discovered no trace of illegal drugs at all. At this point I believe I have crossed the line of decency and will be signing off. I would say goodnight and goodbye to my fans, but I know I don't have any.
143man wrote:
oh, and by the way - ....NEXT
Ramzi is scum and a cheat and no amount of fabricated crap any of you come up with can explain how you go from being at a level which wouldnt even win a NCAA title to World Leader, and double World Champion in what are the 2 deepest and competitive events in mens track, and therefore arguably in mens sports.
You're using logic to support the 800 field that many use to back up Krummenacker when they say that the WR holder was in that race. Just because someone HAS run a time, even a year before, does not make them capable of running it at that time. I believe track and field news even had an article on how weak the 800 was in 2005 in general. Statistical comparisons to previous years showed a HUGE drop in depth and front strength.
Next, saying Ramzi couldnt have won an NCAA is a bit far. He had a 1:45 PR from several years back that he had run in Morocco (read: not European time trial=slower times).
wow so what's the difference? i took his first 1500 to his last 1500, that's more than a year. so he improved TEN seconds in one season, the improvement looks even more drastic than Ramzi's. you just made an even better argument for me!
as for your analysis of the 800m fields. you CANNOT deny that he beat guys who were clearly having an off season - Yuri, who has run 1:42 didn't even break 1:44 prior to the world champs. clearly not in his element. which is exactly my point - it was not that strong of a field assembled.
maybe you should stop twisting around sh*t and accept that ramzi's improvement and performances aren't out of this world and not necessarily indicative of drug use. if you are so f'ing sure that he is from your discussions with his teammates, maybe you should talk to the IAAF. Did you do that? No, you bullsh*t anonymously on a letsrun message board. classic.
Commendetore Pazzi wrote:
You're using logic to support the 800 field that many use to back up Krummenacker when they say that the WR holder was in that race. Just because someone HAS run a time, even a year before, does not make them capable of running it at that time. I believe track and field news even had an article on how weak the 800 was in 2005 in general. Statistical comparisons to previous years showed a HUGE drop in depth and front strength.
Next, saying Ramzi couldnt have won an NCAA is a bit far. He had a 1:45 PR from several years back that he had run in Morocco (read: not European time trial=slower times).
I bet you can still taste his semen now.
To add a last note, reading your first post says a lot about the way you look at people from other countries.
The post is about Bahrayn being cheats (ergo Ramzi) and your support for this claim is an experience with QATRI atheltes. Apparently you see all Arab states as the same, in spite of the fact that these two are highly competative and very unlikely to work together. If a camp of Frenchmen (maybe having Faoud Chouki (proven cheat) with them) come to the US and one asks for drugs, does that mean that all French runners as well as all German runners and all English runners are of the same ideologies? Apparently so.
143man wrote:
We had a group of Qataris training at our track in Germany, and they found out one the guys from the club was a chemist (a triple jumper).
As your name implies, you are a very fast 800 meter runner. As this quote implies you are from Germany. How was the training regimen under Thomas Springstein? It isn't wise to call the kettle black when you are a pot.
143man wrote:
We had a group of Qataris training at our track in Germany, and they found out one the guys from the club was a chemist (a triple jumper).
As your name implies, you are a very fast 800 meter runner. As this quote implies you are from Germany. How was the training regimen under Thomas Springstein? It isn't wise to call the kettle black when you are a pot.
Rashid Ramzi said that he actually ran a mid 3:30's 1500m time in 2003 in a race in Morocco I think, who else read that source?
huh? wrote:
wow so what's the difference? i took his first 1500 to his last 1500, that's more than a year. so he improved TEN seconds in one season, the improvement looks even more drastic than Ramzi's. you just made an even better argument for me!
i have no bones to pick either way, but i'm unclear as to what you've posted. where have you listed his first 1500? i'm unaware of this 10sec difference you talk of. thanks.