Only on letsrun can a marathon runner that no one beyond the most hardcore fans has ever heard of be considered a big bust. Wake me up when someone like Gidey or Tsegay goes down.
Hi rekrunner. You forgot to say that she was slow.
Thing is, the AIU decided to concentrate all its efforts and resources on one country: Kenya. And, naturally, that's where all the busts happened. Of course it made sense since Kenya is by far the most successful distance country by numbers, but it led to the misguided assumption by the simple-minded that Ethiopia, Morocco, USA, UK, Norway, France and, yes, even Japan, are all comparatively clean.
Dopers in rich countries have state-of-the-art scientific backing to help them cut corners and avoid detection. Ridiculous to think that cyclists in those same countries dope with abandon while the runners remain good and innocent as altar boys. It is a fact that the pharmaceutical companies with the capacity of manufacturing these drugs are in America and Europe where they are tested and there's clearly a market.
There was another Ethiopian bust recently, signalling that they are finally starting to catch up to Ethiopian dopers. I expect a flood, considering how well they have done historically in the medal races since the 1990s, how many doping coaches and agents have been involved with Ethiopian runners, and how closed off to outsiders the country was.
1) Does anyone have a list of Ethiopian drug busts?
Have there been any of prominence? Think of all the prominent Kenyan busts. And it makes no sense to me that they wouldn't also cheat in Ethiopia - which is poorer than Kenya.
2) Does WADA publish a list of drug tests by country? I'd like to see how many tests were carried out in Ethiopia in 2022 versus Kenya in 2022. It's my understanding there is a lab in Kenya that can do to the tests but not in Ethiopia and some of the tests are very time sensitive and if you do it in Ethiopia you then have to fly them to Kenya which obviously is quite expensive.
Aren’t you the journalist here? Go be a journalist then. Just asking random questions on a message board is lazy.
I've seen this sentiment a lot, and I don't understand it. If you had a question about quantum entanglement, and you know of a message board filled with self proclaimed experts on the subject, would you not ask the board or would you tell a reporter to go find out somewhere else and tell me?
Lot's of people come to this board to ask questions of knowledgeable people. Yet I have seen this strange reasoning that because he runs the board he is not allowed to ask questions here like everyone else is. No, he must ignore his own board and find the answer somewhere else.
That is not a random question and this is not a random board. The question, "What Ethiopians have been caught that people in the community think qualify as 'prominent'", seems like a reasonable question for the board. He is asking for board input, which is one of the primary reasons you have a board like this. I would also suspect there is someone on this board who knows about the particulars of Ethiopian drug testing. So why not start here? I would. Why is do people get so upset he uses this board as one of his sources of information?
The fact remains that blood testing without advance notice has been common in Europe and the United States for long before it was used in Kenya and over 300 Kenyans have tested positive or been banned for other reasons in the past seven years alone, and very few Western European or American distance runners--many of whom are not signed by the biggest talent managers and with no access to the Healing Hans of the world. It is likely that the best of the Kenyans and Ethiopians have been protected from drug busts by those agents and doctors.
Ninth fastest all time and people argue it's not significant. Give me a break. In the elite running community she's well known, but in the greater picture, obviously not a household name. And this does proports to be a running site, right?
1) Does anyone have a list of Ethiopian drug busts?
Have there been any of prominence? Think of all the prominent Kenyan busts. And it makes no sense to me that they wouldn't also cheat in Ethiopia - which is poorer than Kenya.
2) Does WADA publish a list of drug tests by country? I'd like to see how many tests were carried out in Ethiopia in 2022 versus Kenya in 2022. It's my understanding there is a lab in Kenya that can do to the tests but not in Ethiopia and some of the tests are very time sensitive and if you do it in Ethiopia you then have to fly them to Kenya which obviously is quite expensive.
They published it for track runners after Oregon worlds. Ethiopian track runners were the most tested in the world. However for their road runners I have not seen data. We know Kenyan road runners are likely the most tested in that department based on the priority being given to them and the sheer number of them. That’s seemingly why many of the busted athletes are C or D-tier. I don’t really buy the “Ethiopia will be the next Kenya” theory (many Kenyan bans are for obscure substances/in-competition banned things or nandrolone), but I do think the trend of ABP bans for the top athletes is for real.
The fact remains that blood testing without advance notice has been common in Europe and the United States for long before it was used in Kenya and over 300 Kenyans have tested positive or been banned for other reasons in the past seven years alone, and very few Western European or American distance runners--many of whom are not signed by the biggest talent managers and with no access to the Healing Hans of the world. It is likely that the best of the Kenyans and Ethiopians have been protected from drug busts by those agents and doctors.
Kenya and Ethiopia have deeper talent pools than the rest of the world combined. That's just fact. It started in the 60s when very few were competing and only slumped with the Olympic boycotts. Kenyans are now tested far more than Europeans and Americans yet the dominance hasn't ebbed.
Only on letsrun can a marathon runner that no one beyond the most hardcore fans has ever heard of be considered a big bust. Wake me up when someone like Gidey or Tsegay goes down.
9th fastest Woman in history is not big enough for you?
How many people knew she was the 9th fastest marathoner in history before reading this thread? My guess is not very many.
This wasn’t some big name going down, just another random road racer who flew too close to the sun.
Only on letsrun can a marathon runner that no one beyond the most hardcore fans has ever heard of be considered a big bust. Wake me up when someone like Gidey or Tsegay goes down.
Hi rekrunner. You forgot to say that she was slow.
Sorry. I don't post as "another one bites the dust".
There is little doubt that the new shoes are making the women faster in the marathon, and before Mary Keitany, the best marathon times, apart from Paula's, were soft.
Thing is, the AIU decided to concentrate all its efforts and resources on one country: Kenya. And, naturally, that's where all the busts happened. Of course it made sense since Kenya is by far the most successful distance country by numbers, but it led to the misguided assumption by the simple-minded that Ethiopia, Morocco, USA, UK, Norway, France and, yes, even Japan, are all comparatively clean.
Dopers in rich countries have state-of-the-art scientific backing to help them cut corners and avoid detection. Ridiculous to think that cyclists in those same countries dope with abandon while the runners remain good and innocent as altar boys. It is a fact that the pharmaceutical companies with the capacity of manufacturing these drugs are in America and Europe where they are tested and there's clearly a market.
Exactly. That's why my response to dubious performances is always "It's possible that he/she isn't doping" - with a wink and smile.
Thing is, the AIU decided to concentrate all its efforts and resources on one country: Kenya. And, naturally, that's where all the busts happened. Of course it made sense since Kenya is by far the most successful distance country by numbers, but it led to the misguided assumption by the simple-minded that Ethiopia, Morocco, USA, UK, Norway, France and, yes, even Japan, are all comparatively clean.
Dopers in rich countries have state-of-the-art scientific backing to help them cut corners and avoid detection. Ridiculous to think that cyclists in those same countries dope with abandon while the runners remain good and innocent as altar boys. It is a fact that the pharmaceutical companies with the capacity of manufacturing these drugs are in America and Europe where they are tested and there's clearly a market.
I agree with you.Doping in wealthier nations is extremely sophisticated,and widespread across many sports.They rarely test positive because thats where the money is.
2:17 runner, lol. 6 minutes slower than the top! Clearly the doping made her slower, as expected based on my detailed analysis of all the facts.
Recall that this is provisional, which proves that she is clean for sure.
I like how you rounded 2:16:56 up to 2:17, but failed to round 2:11:53 up to 2:12. That way you can turn 5 minutes and 3 seconds into 6 minutes. When you fudge statistics to make your argument stronger, it actually makes your argument weaker, as it reveals bias and a comfort with dishonesty.
2:17 runner, lol. 6 minutes slower than the top! Clearly the doping made her slower, as expected based on my detailed analysis of all the facts.
Recall that this is provisional, which proves that she is clean for sure.
I like how you rounded 2:16:56 up to 2:17, but failed to round 2:11:53 up to 2:12. That way you can turn 5 minutes and 3 seconds into 6 minutes. When you fudge statistics to make your argument stronger, it actually makes your argument weaker, as it reveals bias and a comfort with dishonesty.
1) Does anyone have a list of Ethiopian drug busts?
Have there been any of prominence? Think of all the prominent Kenyan busts. And it makes no sense to me that they wouldn't also cheat in Ethiopia - which is poorer than Kenya.
2) Does WADA publish a list of drug tests by country? I'd like to see how many tests were carried out in Ethiopia in 2022 versus Kenya in 2022. It's my understanding there is a lab in Kenya that can do to the tests but not in Ethiopia and some of the tests are very time sensitive and if you do it in Ethiopia you then have to fly them to Kenya which obviously is quite expensive.
While poverty is a factor that would lead people to cheating, I think the general level of corruption in a country would also have an impact on the average person's choice to cheat. Charlie Francis sold his athletes on the idea that everybody is doing it, so it isn't really cheating. If one lives in a society in which open corruption is a daily thing (yes, I realize there is corruption everywhere, but in some places it is present in everything they do), I figure it would be more likely to be accepted that everyone is cheating. This is just a point to ponder, as I don't know anything about the general state of corruption in Ethiopia or Kenya.
They published it for track runners after Oregon worlds. Ethiopian track runners were the most tested in the world. However for their road runners I have not seen data. We know Kenyan road runners are likely the most tested in that department based on the priority being given to them and the sheer number of them. That’s seemingly why many of the busted athletes are C or D-tier. I don’t really buy the “Ethiopia will be the next Kenya” theory (many Kenyan bans are for obscure substances/in-competition banned things or nandrolone), but I do think the trend of ABP bans for the top athletes is for real.
Ninth fastest all time and people argue it's not significant. Give me a break. In the elite running community she's well known, but in the greater picture, obviously not a household name. And this does proports to be a running site, right?
Yeah the dismissal is odd. Outside of Gidey, Tsegay, Assefa, Berisu, Gebreslase and Welteji there really arent many in-their-prime Ethiopians who would be bigger busts. This is a Rhonex level athlete.
I like how you rounded 2:16:56 up to 2:17, but failed to round 2:11:53 up to 2:12. That way you can turn 5 minutes and 3 seconds into 6 minutes. When you fudge statistics to make your argument stronger, it actually makes your argument weaker, as it reveals bias and a comfort with dishonesty.
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