Putting aside the main issue, your solution does not work for either race.
As an example for XC I am going to take one of my transitioned male to female runners and have him run in the female race. The real winner of the race (the girl in second) never gets to break the tape or feel like they won, nor do they know where they stand in the team score.
Then the athlete factors into the scoring of the men’s race without anyone in that race being able to react.
There's a solution to this. Two tapes. A transitioned female must be declared a transitioned female. If a female non-transgender wins, one tape. If the transgender female wins, one tape for winning and one tape for the first biological female. Good planning can solve this.
As far as scoring, they score with the boys score. Placing scores are just relative composites, even if the lowest numerical placement on a female team score is 2, it is still the lowest female, if the transgender female won. They would vacate their 1 for the girls' team
There are two solutions at the HS level: transgender athletes are banned or they’re allowed to compete. Horsing around with scoring or finishing tapes is taking a right away from a transgender athlete that they already have. Why would they be agreeable to your proposal?
Putting aside the main issue, your solution does not work for either race.
As an example for XC I am going to take one of my transitioned male to female runners and have him run in the female race. The real winner of the race (the girl in second) never gets to break the tape or feel like they won, nor do they know where they stand in the team score.
Then the athlete factors into the scoring of the men’s race without anyone in that race being able to react.
There's a solution to this. Two tapes. A transitioned female must be declared a transitioned female. If a female non-transgender wins, one tape. If the transgender female wins, one tape for winning and one tape for the first biological female. Good planning can solve this.
As far as scoring, they score with the boys score. Placing scores are just relative composites, even if the lowest numerical placement on a female team score is 2, it is still the lowest female, if the transgender female won. They would vacate their 1 for the girls' team
There's a solution to this. Two tapes. A transitioned female must be declared a transitioned female. If a female non-transgender wins, one tape. If the transgender female wins, one tape for winning and one tape for the first biological female. Good planning can solve this.
As far as scoring, they score with the boys score. Placing scores are just relative composites, even if the lowest numerical placement on a female team score is 2, it is still the lowest female, if the transgender female won. They would vacate their 1 for the girls' team
There are two solutions at the HS level: transgender athletes are banned or they’re allowed to compete. Horsing around with scoring or finishing tapes is taking a right away from a transgender athlete that they already have. Why would they be agreeable to your proposal?
They have an unalienable right to compete, but there has to be some wiggle room for the sake of fairness.
Technically, the push is for transgender female athletes to not be able to compete because it is unfair to biological females.
In lieu of this ban, two tapes if a transgender female wins is not taking away the right for the person to win the race.
It's like this...I ran in several Dirt Dog races in SD County... given I was not quick enough to score. However, even if I was, it would not have mattered because scoring was based on those with USATF membership. I had an absolute right to run in the race, but no automatic right to be scored.
There's a solution to this. Two tapes. A transitioned female must be declared a transitioned female. If a female non-transgender wins, one tape. If the transgender female wins, one tape for winning and one tape for the first biological female. Good planning can solve this.
As far as scoring, they score with the boys score. Placing scores are just relative composites, even if the lowest numerical placement on a female team score is 2, it is still the lowest female, if the transgender female won. They would vacate their 1 for the girls' team
Now I know you’re trolling
No. It's called compromise. A lot of people want to diminish the idea of a workable plan. Drawing from road racing and club races, there are workable solutions.
Not everything needs to look the way it did 30 years ago.
There's a solution to this. Two tapes. A transitioned female must be declared a transitioned female. If a female non-transgender wins, one tape. If the transgender female wins, one tape for winning and one tape for the first biological female. Good planning can solve this.
As far as scoring, they score with the boys score. Placing scores are just relative composites, even if the lowest numerical placement on a female team score is 2, it is still the lowest female, if the transgender female won. They would vacate their 1 for the girls' team
Now I know you’re trolling
And for you saying that in the midst of a real discussion... you're a jock a-hole. You're out of this discussion.
There are two solutions at the HS level: transgender athletes are banned or they’re allowed to compete. Horsing around with scoring or finishing tapes is taking a right away from a transgender athlete that they already have. Why would they be agreeable to your proposal?
They have an unalienable right to compete, but there has to be some wiggle room for the sake of fairness.
Technically, the push is for transgender female athletes to not be able to compete because it is unfair to biological females.
In lieu of this ban, two tapes if a transgender female wins is not taking away the right for the person to win the race.
It's like this...I ran in several Dirt Dog races in SD County... given I was not quick enough to score. However, even if I was, it would not have mattered because scoring was based on those with USATF membership. I had an absolute right to run in the race, but no automatic right to be scored.
You’re proposing some type of “separate but equal” solution. It would be more honest to go for a ban which is what many red states have done.
If someone has transitioned, they can run with the gender that they transitioned into, but their standings will count under their biological sex.
They can see how this plays out with the transgender females first. Someone like Soren can compete with the females but the resultant 19 or so will be factored into male placing.
It seems fair.
It might seem fair to you. I don't think it's fair. I'm not really interested in "fairness" from the diversity, equity and inclusion front. What I think is even more fair is to have a clear Title IX Women's race (Where woman = biologically female. If a chromosome test needs to be performed, so be it. if any Y chromosome is present, then not classified as "woman" under Title IX). all other people can run in the Open division. THAT seems more 'fair' to me.
If someone has transitioned, they can run with the gender that they transitioned into, but their standings will count under their biological sex.
They can see how this plays out with the transgender females first. Someone like Soren can compete with the females but the resultant 19 or so will be factored into male placing.
It seems fair.
It might seem fair to you. I don't think it's fair. I'm not really interested in "fairness" from the diversity, equity and inclusion front. What I think is even more fair is to have a clear Title IX Women's race (Where woman = biologically female. If a chromosome test needs to be performed, so be it. if any Y chromosome is present, then not classified as "woman" under Title IX). all other people can run in the Open division. THAT seems more 'fair' to me.
They have an unalienable right to compete, but there has to be some wiggle room for the sake of fairness.
Technically, the push is for transgender female athletes to not be able to compete because it is unfair to biological females.
In lieu of this ban, two tapes if a transgender female wins is not taking away the right for the person to win the race.
It's like this...I ran in several Dirt Dog races in SD County... given I was not quick enough to score. However, even if I was, it would not have mattered because scoring was based on those with USATF membership. I had an absolute right to run in the race, but no automatic right to be scored.
You’re proposing some type of “separate but equal” solution. It would be more honest to go for a ban which is what many red states have done.
Because society is pan-biblical , you can't undo transgenderism. It's genetic. The law allows transitioning. That's the law. You can't wish societal change away and codify it with a manmade book...so you make compromises.
You’re proposing some type of “separate but equal” solution. It would be more honest to go for a ban which is what many red states have done.
Because society is pan-biblical , you can't undo transgenderism. It's genetic. The law allows transitioning. That's the law. You can't wish societal change away and codify it with a manmade book...so you make compromises.
I have a better idea. At the starting line, transgender women will be required to consume a full hot dog. This would symbolize their transition from a man to a woman, and would also give them an appropriate handicap that will even the playing field. If they throw up, they are disqualified.
I have a better idea. At the starting line, transgender women will be required to consume a full hot dog. This would symbolize their transition from a man to a woman, and would also give them an appropriate handicap that will even the playing field. If they throw up, they are disqualified.
I will debate with those that don't speak so crassly. Thanks. Move on.
You’re proposing some type of “separate but equal” solution. It would be more honest to go for a ban which is what many red states have done.
Because society is pan-biblical , you can't undo transgenderism. It's genetic. The law allows transitioning. That's the law. You can't wish societal change away and codify it with a manmade book...so you make compromises.
But in Maine transgender female are allowed to compete. What would transgender athletes receive in exchange for the proposed concession? What happens when they say “no”?
Because society is pan-biblical , you can't undo transgenderism. It's genetic. The law allows transitioning. That's the law. You can't wish societal change away and codify it with a manmade book...so you make compromises.
But in Maine transgender female are allowed to compete. What would transgender athletes receive in exchange for the proposed concession? What happens when they say “no”?
Good question. Technically, rules are changeable agency-wise. Look at the rulings regard 46-XY DSD Caster Semenya. They changed. The athletes run under the rules of the federation that guides them. In California, the CIF rules apply. In Tennessee, TSSAA rules apply. Etc. Etc .
Those who guide the athletes make the rules... the athletes don't make the rules.
You compromise with what is fair and codify it for athletes.
But in Maine transgender female are allowed to compete. What would transgender athletes receive in exchange for the proposed concession? What happens when they say “no”?
Good question. Technically, rules are changeable agency-wise. Look at the rulings regard 46-XY DSD Caster Semenya. They changed. The athletes run under the rules of the federation that guides them. In California, the CIF rules apply. In Tennessee, TSSAA rules apply. Etc. Etc .
Those who guide the athletes make the rules... the athletes don't make the rules.
You compromise with what is fair and codify it for athletes.
I'm also putting my foot down on any and all arguments that suggest transgender people are freaks and just go away freaks. I won't waste my time on those people.
I'm also putting my foot down on any and all arguments that suggest transgender people are freaks and just go away freaks. I won't waste my time on those people.
Based on you starting this thread… you are those people.
I'm also putting my foot down on any and all arguments that suggest transgender people are freaks and just go away freaks. I won't waste my time on those people.
Based on you starting this thread… you are those people.
I'm an avid supporter and activist and umbrella for the LGBTQIAP2S+ community at large as well as for autism, Asperger's, physical challenges, mental challenges and a lot of other Humanitarian ideals.
So now I have to race against people who aren't even in the same race as me? Come on.
Actually, yes.
And in 5k races with chip time, someone who runs a 19:10 with a gun time of 19:16 can lose to someone with a chip time of 19:06 and a gun time of 19:25 if the latter started later.
It's normal
This isn't really a thing in XC since everyone starts on the starting line.
Anyway, how does this work in terms of team scoring? School X is allowed to have 7 boys in the boys race and 7 girls in the girls race. Do they now run 8 in the girls race and 6 in the boys race in order to score 7 in each? If so, the team is only going to let the transgender female run if they're fast enough to make the top 7 on the boys team, which means that the trans individual in all likelihood won't get to compete anyway.
And in 5k races with chip time, someone who runs a 19:10 with a gun time of 19:16 can lose to someone with a chip time of 19:06 and a gun time of 19:25 if the latter started later.
It's normal
This isn't really a thing in XC since everyone starts on the starting line.
Anyway, how does this work in terms of team scoring? School X is allowed to have 7 boys in the boys race and 7 girls in the girls race. Do they now run 8 in the girls race and 6 in the boys race in order to score 7 in each? If so, the team is only going to let the transgender female run if they're fast enough to make the top 7 on the boys team, which means that the trans individual in all likelihood won't get to compete anyway.
You're talking dual meets. In dual meets, it may be different... but anyone on the team can run... they can't all score. And in a team score... you need a full 5... not just one.
1-3-6-9- ??
Will always place under 2-4-5-7-8
Because no 5 has been established
But invitationals are different because it's by age.
This isn't really a thing in XC since everyone starts on the starting line.
Anyway, how does this work in terms of team scoring? School X is allowed to have 7 boys in the boys race and 7 girls in the girls race. Do they now run 8 in the girls race and 6 in the boys race in order to score 7 in each? If so, the team is only going to let the transgender female run if they're fast enough to make the top 7 on the boys team, which means that the trans individual in all likelihood won't get to compete anyway.
You're talking dual meets. In dual meets, it may be different... but anyone on the team can run... they can't all score. And in a team score... you need a full 5... not just one.
1-3-6-9- ??
Will always place under 2-4-5-7-8
Because no 5 has been established
But invitationals are different because it's by age.