Look at PR races. Men tend to not collapse (at least, at the finish line - a couple will walk a bit then sit down) but women do. I read somewhere that females' blood pressure drops far more rapidly than males' when they suddenly stop.
I think current depth likely is the answer. It wasn’t so long ago that at the same race Kiptoo took off and won by miles. He was a similar outlier in that field on that day to what Valby and Touhy are right now.
I think that women tend to run within themselves while men are more likely to risk it and also try to stay with people who are faster. But, the wider hips/bigger distribution in athletic ability point makes a lot of sense as well. Also explains why women who give birth, which widens the hips, struggle to regain fitness.
At Nuttycombe, there was a 35 second spread between the top 3 women, and the spread happened early. In the Men's race, 31 runners crossed the line within 35 seconds. I've watched this happen so many times. It seems like the lead pack is stacked, and runners hang on for longer in the men's races. Is it about depth of field? Strategy differences? I'm genuinely curious as to why this is.
Women actually go for it from the start in XC.
Men tend to form a "p#ssy-pack" -- running unambitiously in a group until someone finally pushes the pace near the finish.
This is why men leave a lot on the course, while women are actually spent and collapsing after races. Hang out in a finishing area and see the difference.
Agreed. It's ridiculous for people to critique how women race (as if they don't push themselves) when it is much more normal for men to sit and kick. I can recall several US championships and Olympic 1500s where the women went out as fast as the men.
On the other hand, men don't race this way because they are scared of trying too hard. They do it because it makes more sense given the distribution of performances. Look at the top 20 performances in the US for each gender in the 5000.
On the men's side, the top performer is .09 seconds faster than the second performer and about 33 seconds faster than the 20th.
On the women's side, the top performance is 24 seconds faster than the second performer and 1 minute faster than 20th.
It would be reasonable for Kincaid to decide not to push the pace and rabbit the rest of the field, given that they have a fighting chance of hanging on and beating him. Likewise, it would be reasonable for Monson to decide to push the pace given that her top performance this season is 2 seconds per lap faster than the next competitor.
By the time an elite woman makes it to college or elite level races, she has internalized this style of racing. Take Monson for example. She wasn't even that elite in high school, but she won more races than she lost, and usually by large margins.
Easily depth. Every conference/league I've ever been in or observed the top women completely dominate the rest even if they're less experienced. Easier for talent to float to the top with less competition. Men's side has a ton of mid and upper mid level talent guys who are willing to train their brains out.
Feel like the men’s depth was just like the women’s not too long ago. We might finish the decade now where not a single guy from my state doesn’t qualify for Nationals. Whereas we had like 5-10 last decade. A lot of talented guys are getting destroyed now because of the depth. 3:40 and 13:30 is basically a non-conversation now. Feel like smaller school guys can’t rise to the occasion like they used to because of this.
Same reason why UCONN women's basketball can make the final four like ten years in a row. The depth in women's sports isn't as significant as it is on the men's side. Women's sports are much more susceptible to be dominated by outliers. It takes a once in a generation talent like Cheserek on the men's side to have equivalent dominance on the men's side.
Depth is absolutely a big factor as many have said.
Confidence (or overconfidence) is another. Men's races with large packs up front late in the race might include a few individuals that simply don't want to do any more work than they have to, but more likely most of them just believe they have the best kick. For everyone except the winner, that ends up being "overconfidence". Less confident runners tend to not wait as long to push the pace. Obviously in most situations confidence is an advantage, not a disadvantage.
Overconfidence has long been considered one of explanations for the top men and women tending to be closer in ultrarunning events compared to shorter races. Men (on average) are more likely to go out too fast in these events and blow up. Women are more conservative and tend to hold back longer. Oddly enough this is the opposite effect from shorter races, where men tend to pack up and wait to push the pace if they're overconfident in their sprinting ability. There are other reasons for the smaller gap in ultrarunning, such as the energy metabolism differences (use of fat) over long distances that favor women.
Agreed. It's ridiculous for people to critique how women race (as if they don't push themselves) when it is much more normal for men to sit and kick. I can recall several US championships and Olympic 1500s where the women went out as fast as the men.
XC races for either gender are pretty much never sit and kick.
Did you notice at worlds 1500 men (who pushed hard from the gun) still finished closer together than the women (who sat and kicked)?
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Agreed. It's ridiculous for people to critique how women race (as if they don't push themselves) when it is much more normal for men to sit and kick. I can recall several US championships and Olympic 1500s where the women went out as fast as the men.
XC races for either gender are pretty much never sit and kick.
Did you notice at worlds 1500 men (who pushed hard from the gun) still finished closer together than the women (who sat and kicked)?
XC races typically aren't sit and kick, but women's fields tend to get more stretched out by faster individuals at the front because of the wider range of abilities and presence of more outliers
To your second point, I think the point wasn't that women tend to be more spread out because of tactics, but rather that women choose tactics that make sense given the fact that they are more spread out. All it takes is one person choosing to take the pace out hard to drag the whole field out. It's less of a factor at the top level since performers are closer together, although it is still a factor, but it is especially true at the high school level and even D1 college.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I would say women tend to have less depth and a lot of these women are very used to going out and time trialing races becuase they usually have no competition. Also valby has to win by running like that. Nico can't get away with that and same with anyone else in the field.
At Nuttycombe, there was a 35 second spread between the top 3 women, and the spread happened early. In the Men's race, 31 runners crossed the line within 35 seconds. I've watched this happen so many times. It seems like the lead pack is stacked, and runners hang on for longer in the men's races. Is it about depth of field? Strategy differences? I'm genuinely curious as to why this is.
100 men can get within 38 seonds of the best man in the mens 5000m (this year 12:40 was the best and 13:18 was the 100th best). But only 14 women can get with in 38 seconds of the best woman!
The 100th best woman in the world currently runs the 5000 m 75 seconds slower than the top woman.
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