1. Tape a piece of paper on his locker.
2. Write the names of all the runners who beat him on it.
3. Draw a line at the bottom of the list.
4. Underneath that line list all of the runners he beat.
5. His job is to beat as many above the line and to defend against all of those below the line.
6. Your job is to STFU.
NoviceCoach wrote:
I know... seeing it in writing its obvious to me that second one is stupid. I agree.
There's a way to say the second thing in a nicer way.. he should have confidence knowing he ran with those guys before and to trust his fitness.
The first step is to not ever say the word "meh." Ever.
Dude, you just said he crushed summer base training and set a PR - what the hell does how other runners do change this.
It doesn't
Don't you think other runner (of hs age) could also have improved by running over the summer...this do not in any way diminish what he just did. Don't be an a-hole. Try being a coach - ie on his side.
clearly you are a d-bag coach and probably should look to get out the business if this is your reaction to an athlete that did what he was supposed to do over the summer and even raced well. Can't image what kind of hell you'll come up with when he races poorly.
Just a tip (in case he actually does have a bad race). You don't need to tell him. He knows. And pointing it out isn't coaching. Think of what you would want a coach to say to you after a bad race...nothing, something stupid, something obvious, or something encouraging. Only two of those options are the correct answer.
NoviceCoach wrote:
Here's the background. My athlete had a great track season. Had an even better summer of training. Has traditionally kind of faded over 5k in cross (he's now a junior and has to date been pretty aerobically unfit). He is DEFINITELY fit. Ran his first race this weekend and he did fine. He looked strong throughout. Never faded. Had a nice PR too. As such, we both were pretty pleased with his performance.
Then I started looking at who was around him. Guys who were 25-35sec faster than him had run similar times on the track in the spring. I was honestly a little surprised because I know he is so much fitter than he was in the spring and kind of assumed he would be crushing the kids who were around him in track. I think he made a massive leap in fitness this summer. He felt great during the race too... so its not like he felt cooked or like he didn't run well.
I haven't said to him that he should have been 35 or more seconds faster because I want him to ride the good feelings to his next race. He has confidence right now (he doesn't know the stats of the guys ahead of him like I know).
I was thinking of just giving him the advice of "listen, you crushed this first race by being measured. Now for this second race take some risks and put yourself in a position for top 10". And let that ride. What do you guys think? Or should I say "listen, I know you think it was a great race but guys 30 spots ahead of you you were running with in track season. You know you had an unbelievable summer... so go run with those guys... you belong"
I guess its the same end result... just trying to figure out what is more motivating.
Learn how to ask questions and coach, and it gets easier. Help your athlete learn to self evaluate without comparing, turning into condemning. Lets compare this race versus last race. How do you see it and what are the things you feel you want to improve? Would you say you are more fit now that X weeks ago? Yes? how do you think your performance is better? Lets walk thru the details and see if thats the case. Telling is repelling. help the person find their answers and be encouraging and they will motivate themself.
OHXCCoach wrote:
It's a needle you have to thread all the time as a coach. Not sure how it would be coaching boys because I only coach girls, but I try to acknowledge the progress, congratulate the result, but then challenge them to be more aggressive, run with more confidence, etc. in future races. Paint the picture for them - "Man, with a taper, fast course, cooler weather, strong competition to pull you along, I KNOW you can go even faster!"
The good thing about XC is the regular season meets are opportunities to try new race tactics, to find that line of going out too fast and dying. We take splits at mile 1 & 2 and see how much they slowed or sped up, what was their position in the race (they get tiny skull beads if they improve position) so you can see how they actually did versus their competition. And when you have familiarity with competitors or teammates, you can challenge your athlete (a few days after their race) to stick with or pass athletes they KNOW they can beat or keep up with. I tell my girls all the time - "you did the same workouts as Girl X, and she just popped off a great time...so you can do the same thing."
Track is also quite different from XC - so you need to understand do you have a grinder, a kicker, a "start fast and hold on for dear life" kind of runner or what. I encourage my girls to tweak race strategy each time to see what formula works best for them.
I have 2 of my slower girls who have really started to buy in and they both set big PRs recently...but they did so with a very conservative start and a strong close. This next race, I'm challenging them to start a little (10-15 seconds) faster and see if they can replicate their miles 2 & 3 from prior race. A LOT of it is just confidence - if they've seen they can finish strong, they can run a little more relaxed - yet faster - early on because they KNOW they have that ability to finish well. They feel less pressure to bank time because they have doubts about closing well. Doesn't mean they'll do it, but if they THINK they can they are that much closer to actually doing it.
Thank you for all your positive input on this thread. You must be a great coach to your kids! God bless.
You obviously don't understand that cross country.courses differ. If he runs 10 seconds faster next week but loses to 100 more people that he beat this week it is due to the course being short.
fully glazed wrote:
XC doesn't have PRs. That is the issue with many people. Let's assume this kid runs against the same guys next week on a different course amd he is 50.spots further back but 5 seconds faster. He had a terrible race but you and he think he had a great race.
where i come from, we keep track of PRs with speed ratings. TULLY MF RUNNERS.
also, we still keep track of distance PRs. kids will always be motivated by numbers and look forward to racing on fast courses. and they know the difference between a killer time running up a mountain vs watered down times on a standard California cross course.
and don't forget about single course personal bests. that is definitely thing, even with all the variables that can challenge that.
NoviceCoach wrote:
Here's the background. My athlete had a great track season. Had an even better summer of training. Has traditionally kind of faded over 5k in cross (he's now a junior and has to date been pretty aerobically unfit). He is DEFINITELY fit. Ran his first race this weekend and he did fine. He looked strong throughout. Never faded. Had a nice PR too. As such, we both were pretty pleased with his performance.
Then I started looking at who was around him. Guys who were 25-35sec faster than him had run similar times on the track in the spring. I was honestly a little surprised because I know he is so much fitter than he was in the spring and kind of assumed he would be crushing the kids who were around him in track. I think he made a massive leap in fitness this summer. He felt great during the race too... so its not like he felt cooked or like he didn't run well.
I haven't said to him that he should have been 35 or more seconds faster because I want him to ride the good feelings to his next race. He has confidence right now (he doesn't know the stats of the guys ahead of him like I know).
I was thinking of just giving him the advice of "listen, you crushed this first race by being measured. Now for this second race take some risks and put yourself in a position for top 10". And let that ride. What do you guys think? Or should I say "listen, I know you think it was a great race but guys 30 spots ahead of you you were running with in track season. You know you had an unbelievable summer... so go run with those guys... you belong"
I guess its the same end result... just trying to figure out what is more motivating.
Motivating athletes can be a challenge. I note that it is his first race and he ran well based on how he felt and what you saw.
What you and him both can't control is other athletes.
Keep rolling along and ticking boxes and if not mistaken your state champs would be in November so many more races to fine tune performances.
Your job as his coach is to get him to the line when it matters fit and healthy and ready to go.
I agree with those who said to say nothing.
Good luck!
Correct in regards to speed ratings. Now imagine that he ran a 180 speed rating last year but ran a 160 to open the season but his time was faster and he lost to 20 guys that he beat during the track season.
You’re a humble guy for accepting the advice here. Keep up the good coaching! Have a great season.
Let the athlete enjoy the moment.
Give it time to breathe.
What do you think you could've done better?
It's a mistake to compare 5k CC performances with the shorter track events.
Coach, congratulations for motivating your runner to achieve a solid summer of training. Keep your runners healthy and they will improve throughout the year. Positive and constructive feedback works the best. Good luck.