Am I the only one that thinks Nuguse AR is as suspect as the women's marathon WR?

+1

Or if one is so inclined: believe that all are clean unless they test positive (and then they doped only once of course).

This back-and-fourth arguing who is guaranteed a doper versus who is for sure a doper vs. who is likely a doper vs. who might be actually clean vs. who is guaranteed clean is quite pointless, and only shows personal bias.

For years simply beating 4 minutes was an achievement in the sport. By comparison, 3:43 is off the planet. It only seems unexceptional to some now because you have become accustomed to what doping has done to the sport - although you don't recognise it as such. You erroneously ascribe the enduring of the record as being attributable to athletes not taking the event "seriously". They have always taken the event seriously - since Nurmi and even before him. But what they didn't have then and in the decades after was what athletes today can routinely access.

I just wonder why people like you continue to follow a sport you hate so much, other than to just accuse anyone who wins races of being dirty. Everyone in all sports is suspect - just accept that and enjoy it. Otherwise, enjoy playing a game of PED Whack-A-Mole with any athlete who wins an event.

We here on lrc like to pick and choose who is doping and who isn't depending upon how we identify at the moment.

When I was a 22yo undertrained D3 senior running a barely sub-2 800, my hematocrit was 50%.

I don't have a position one way or the other on this, just saying, that's one little data point for reference.

We are in the late early stages of doubt and disillusion about our sport re peds. Started decades ago but has reached the murky grounds where all it takes is a whispered word or a mindless shout to bring down any, and now all, remarkable performances. Knowing nomore than anyone else as to the actual facts in any of the cases I will just wait for evidence and substantiated proof before I accept any of the speculation about Mr. Nuguse or any other. It would be responsible behavior for those who have opinions in the matters to at least state that they are offering only opinions and feelings.

Is there drugs use in the sport? Most definitely.

But are the records being set because of drug use or super shoes?

My bet is its the shoes more than the drugs.

Everyone is anti-drug for obvious reasons, but seem to shrug off the huge advantage these shoes are going to runners.

If these same runners were using old shoe tech, they would all need to be on drugs to run the times they are running clean now.

Sorry but you cant whine about drugs and shrug off the shoes. And if you do, then please dont compare old records with the times being run now.

- he's already run 3:29.0 at the start of the year (3:45ish conversion)

- 3:47 indoors, beating el g's time and almost a WR

- incredible college career - solo 3:34, olympic team as a collegian (everyone forgets about that for some reason), and a ton of other stuff

- can now focus on training full time (people discount this too but as someone with collegiate track experience it makes a SERIOUS, SERIOUS difference, and I ran at a CC. I can't even imagine notre dame while pursuing a masters or whatever.)

- super shoes

- training with the best full time, all the time

incredible? yes. FFS, an AMERICAN MAN HAS RUN A 3:43 MILE

shocking and suspect? not really. he was quite clearly a one of a kind talent in college.

Yared doesn’t even drink coffee or take caffeine. Give him a Red Bull and some Bicarb and he’ll run the world record

He's as clean as anyone else. Even pro cycling this year saw some otherworldly performances. I usually don't care and just enjoy the show, but something is amiss. That women's marathon WR is such an outlier. I guess it's on par with Gidey's 1:02:52, but still. It would make sense that there's a new undetectable PED that is being used in competition, but I'm not pointing any fingers.

Might be. But what is forgotten is that women tend to perform closer to men as the distance increases. I still feel like the longer distance records get finally on par with the shorter distance records. I never understood how it was possible to have many women run 14:20ish for 5000 yet having almost no woman run sub 2:18.

Of course it is possible that all are doped up. But 2:11 is not any more suspicious than any other record in my opinion.

Of course Nuguse is clean. 11 second pb at 24 is nothing when you are just getting seriouis. And Brazier would have been the first guy to break 1:40 if he hadn't developed his injury problems, like everybody here was predicting. Clean. It's Wightman and Kerr that are dirty and the result of a state sponsored Brit doping program stretching back to Harold Abrahams.

Lol it wasn’t an 11 second PB Coevett, you coward. Can’t wait until he runs a competitive 5k and shatters his PR and you cry about it being too much of an improvement for your feeble brain.

What is even more forgotten is that doping helps women more than men because of the testosterone differences.

Zatopek must have doped since no one else has ever won golds in the 5, 10 and marathon in the same Olympics (and Olympic records in each event). Obvious doper.

Pheidippides died. Obvious doper. Would have lived if he hadn't.

Adam must have doped to father the human race. Needed a ton of T for that.

Titanosaurs are so large they only got there by doping. I doubt the T-Rex would have the size, power and speed without doping.

If there was an actual big bang it must have been through doping because it's only happened once.

The mile WR was set in 1993 at 3:44, then 1999 at 3:43 in the height of EPO without testing. In 2004 and effective EPO testing started. Since then no one came within 3 seconds with Alan Webb being the ONLY runner under 3:47 in 24 years.

The shoes have made a tremendous difference in times, nearly making up for the slowing of times since the EPO test availability. This is clear in the 1500 where the 100th best time got about 2 seconds faster.

Ingebrigtsen and Nuguse ran a very similar race to El G. and Ngeny in 1999. They pushed each other to a great time. JI and YN are less likely to have EPO peanut butter blood than the 1999 racers. If we re-calibrate our thinking about the time value of the shoes, this is about 1 second faster than Alan Webb. Given JI history and YN being the NCAA record holder, this is not outrageous.

For the Marathon, however, the shoes have been available since 2016 with small enhancements. Marathon times shifted by about 2 minutes faster with the shoes. A few possibilities exist for the 2:11:53 women WR that is 2:10 or 5 seconds/mile faster than the previous WR. This amount of time drop happened when women were first allowed in the Olympic Marathon (1983) and with the new shoes.

1. The Adidas shoe is another leap in technology similar to the road super shoe shift from 2016 (If times like this continue in the new Adidas shoe, it will lend credibility to this possibility).

2. She is a generational talent so far beyond her peers that she is the worlds marathon messiah. (extremely unlikely).

3. Drugs (highest likelihood based on previous history)

Were any male contenders in Berlin running in the Adidas shoe?

Yes you are the only one who thinks so. You are being a troll

Dude, this is let's run, where the collective IQ is three and 90% of the folks are Uber pessimists. You the runner are either:

1 damned because you don't run particularly well, and then you get criticized for being mediocre or not very good or a failure

2 damned because you run extremely fast and then reflexively get accused of some form of doping or cheating, even if there's no evidence ( and of course not considering that there may be techniques or substances/supplements that are completely within the rules as well)