HS times needed to run in college? Scholarship and walk-on? Big universities and small?

I appreciate knowing that Tuohy isnt smart enough to earn any academic aid at a school like NC State. The rumors were true that she couldn't get into Stanford or Notre Dame or Muchigan.

Most schools have team admittance standards for scholarship and walk-on times. Do some homework with the schools you are interested. The opportunities for all schools depends on the year and the talent they have at the time.

Best thing to do is to show improvement. Old times vs current times are a big clue for coaches.

Word

Maybe you don't realize that there are 150 faster women in the NCAA. Wasting a full scholarship on an athlete who may never improve is a terrible decision. That's why good coaches don't do it. Take a look in TFRRS for the top 8 in any conference and you will get an idea about how much an athlete is worth. For females, 1st or 2nd is worth a full ride. 7yh or 8th is good for 25%. 4:16 was 8th best in the B10 1500 this year. Anything slower does not help a team. A 4:45 1600 isn't close to scoring.

You need to read my post. Student-athletes can turn down any scholarship they want and attend larger, more stacked programs for less money. There is only one girl that has ever run 1:59 out of high school in the past year, Juliette Whittaker, and I got to speak to her at Henderson and she is fully taken care of at Stanford. Now, if you are playing a transfer portal game, same rules do not apply. Yes, a 3:59/8:42 guy can get 1/3rd. Also, a 9:02 guy can get 3/3. That happened last year as well, as did a 2:09 female getting 3/3. I never recruited 400/800 types so that's out of my realm.

That’s not how D1 coaches think since they can lose any top performer to a grass is greener program. They need to capture the next best emerging talent and right now if you are sub-4:48 sub-10:15 you are going to have plenty of options on how much or how little you want to accept.

Good Luck, it’s actually a fun process if you make it so! Heck when I signed I only had two real options!

It isn't a way of thinking. It is simple math. You obvioulsy have little knowledge of the subject. If you give a full ride to someone who isn't scoring, then you are significantly undercompensating someone who is scoring. You mention trnasferring. Your upside down logic would have many of your scoreres transfer out.

Then that is on him - I coached a 48.5/1.47.9 HS kid who was on a Full 100% athletic ride to a good Power 5 school. Got NO academic aid (guess he was stupid - but isn't that the norm for American Colleges?). Call that silly on the part of the school, but the kid made every NCAA Track FINAL indoors and out (without turning pro in the interim as many of his top competitors did), so he earned that gamble I would say.

Coached a girl recently who is on a full athletic scholarship to a good school (mid-major). So don't tell me they are not available, and she wasn't very good (2.11/4.58). Granted the combined athletic/academic contribution makes more sense. No idea why hers (as she is an American citizen) isn't both, but that is NOT the case.

Perhaps too many people have only certain schools in mind (or conferences) and will accept limited funding simply to be a part of that. All well and good, but people can develop almost anywhere individually both athletically and academically. But don't then turn around and complain about College debt.

A few kids get full rides because the coach doesn't know what they are doing. The 47/1:47 kids was discussed in another thread. He is a national merit scholar. He has a good coach and smart parents. Some schools didn't even respond to him. Too many of you don't realize how bad coaches are at doing their jobs.

Thank you very much to all of you. I really appreciate your insights and expertise.

Overall, it does sound somewhat hit-or-miss for those who would be at the margins (like a 4:59 girl / 4:16 boy), but I guess that should be expected.

I am aware of the times that are posted on the XC team's site to be recruited vs walk-on. However, even in this thread, these times seem to merely serve as general guidelines as the coaches could have plenty of reasons to deviate from them.

Finally, it appears that a student-athlete could really help themselves by scoring other scholarships and not relying too much on athletic scholarships, if possible. This is of course obvious, but this thread seems to be really driving that point home.

Thanks again, and if you have not posted but have your own experience, I would appreciate reading your contribution as well.

These threads always ignore that there are 340+ D1 schools with running programs. As if it is that hard to walk on a program in the bottom third. Then some pedantic gets all mad that some kids get a full ride, but that includes academic scholarships. As if it matters where the money comes from. Free school is free school.

I think many times the parents don't know where the money is coming from or are just not that aware. If the full-ride comes from a blend of academic/athletic scholarships, they don't care.

I recall many times a parent bragging their star child got a 'scholarship' to play at a Div III school (a SUNY and not one of the four flagship schools). I knew it wasn't an athletic one, but they didn't care.

What this guy said! It is the package. Not scholarship, but package. College staff look at it this way when recruiting, good high school programs look at it this way when advising their athletes.

Good coaches, good AD's, and good programs assemble the money from various sources. They have too, as the NCAA forces it.

What the NCAA sets in its rules level sets what the maximum athletic spend for a program, across the board, at all schools, by division. This is a control mechanism that prevents a handful of well funded programs from pulling in all the top talent and forces the schools to be competitive.

That does not mean a school cannot offer more, but the monies need to come from a non-athletic fund. Schools run out of money from the athletic aid pool first. 12.6 (includes XC, which feels a bit ridiculous, but that is another screed) full athletic scholarships across ~21 events? Plus 6 more headcount for relays. Which is why one must pull from academic aid. Easy-peasey. Sometimes they run out of all it, sometimes they cannot get and that is where hard decisions come from. This is, "accounting."

"Free school is free school"

You are correct