Because they have their guys getting into fast races and our guys are either not racing, running road miles, or winning National level 1500’s here in the states.
Athletics was largely confined to the 0.1% of the population inn GB who went to Oxbridge until the 1960,s, yet Britain still excelled at the 1500 with the likes of Bannister. As soon as they let the other 99.9% compete you had Coe, Ovett, Cram, Elliott, Moor croft etc. Then the African EPO era almost killed middle-d in Britain, assisted by the explosion of money in Premiership soccer.
With a level playing field again, GB has twice as many sub 3:32 runners as Kenya, despite the population of Kenya doubling and the native population of GB shrinking.
Another factor is the increase in West African soccer players in England. So George Mills whips the East Africans over a mile because he couldn't get into a premier league team because of all the West African imports. African genetics in action.
That's simply not true about West African footballers. The Premier League is full of European talent. More than that, football is the most meritocratic sport on the planet. The barriers to entry are extremely low and if you're any good, the financial incentives for clubs are so high that some top club will find you, no matter where you are. It's the one sport in Britain that the middle class, private school types have not managed to break into because you simply can't fake that type of technical skill or close off opportunities with barriers to access. That's a long way of saying if Mills had been remotely good enough, he could have been a footballer. West African didn't close off any opportunities for him.
When I was a kid in England, I'd say a good 90% of boys played soccer recreationally. We'd play at school in recess, and play nights too in summer. If you went to the local playing field you'd find a pick up game virtually any night, and during the day in summer.
We had kids that were signed to professional clubs at 15-years-old and others who would go to be semi-professional, and you'd be playing with them on a regular basis.
You think Ovett would beat JIMBO and his legendary 3.24? I need to see your comprehensive DVTT(tm) analysis of the specific race to support your theory. Do you mean his 3.39 at Hengelo in 81 with a 52 first lap? But Coe ran 3.31.95 in his own race same year with a 52sec first lap.... so if Ovett was at 3.23 then Coe was 3.19!!!! Why do you overlook this obvious fact?
What the UK is doing at the moment is unprecedented. Why is their middle distance so much better than the upper distance events?
Side note:
Between 2012 & 2022 there was an average of 11 different men (not including multiple performances) breaking 3:32.00.
2023 has seen 25 different men have dipped below that mark, with 2 weeks of racing left on the outdoor calendar.
Countries with more than 3 individuals with Sub 3:32.00
Since July 1st 2022 ,
UK
3:29.23 - Jake Wightman
3:29.38 - Josh Kerr
3:30.60 - Neil Gourley
3:30.92 - Elliot Giles
3:30.95 - George Mills
3:31.08 - Jake Hayward
3:31.30 - Matthew Stonier
Austrailia
3:29.41 - Oli Hoare
3:30.18 - Stewart Mcsweyn
3:31.81 - Adam Spencer
Spain
3:28.89 - Mo Katir
3:29.18 - Mario Garcia
3:31.43 - Adel Mechaal
Kenya
3:29.08 - Tim Cheruiyot
3:29.11 - Abel Kipsang
3:30.3 - Reynold Cheruiyot
3:31.28 - Vincent Kibet
(Plus USA, because this is a USA website) 3:29.02 - Yared Nuguse 3:30.70 - Cole Hocker
Ethiopia - 2
Norway - 2
etc.
British are better at 1500m/mile than longer distance events than other distance because of genetics (talking here about Brits of Caucasian descent as with the seven noted above).
At sprint distances a far higher percentage of people of West African descent are genetically likely to be elite sprinters (Britain has several excellent sprinters of West African descent).
In general a far higher percentage of people of East African descent are genetically like to be elite distance runners (Britain had an exceptional example in Mo Farah).
It appears that people of Caucasian descent are much more likely to have the speed/stamina mix for 800m/1500m/mile than other distances, and are very competitive. There is probably a British perception that if you are a Caucasian runner - given the Wooderson, Bannister, Ovett, Coe, Cram and now Kerr or Holmes and Muir on the female side history - you can be competitive in those events. There is certainly a focus in that area, with things like the British Milers Club.
Note that there are always going to be exceptions, but certain populations are going to have a higher percentage of individuals with the genetic credentials for excellence in specific distances.
What the UK is doing at the moment is unprecedented. Why is their middle distance so much better than the upper distance events?
Side note:
Between 2012 & 2022 there was an average of 11 different men (not including multiple performances) breaking 3:32.00.
2023 has seen 25 different men have dipped below that mark, with 2 weeks of racing left on the outdoor calendar.
Countries with more than 3 individuals with Sub 3:32.00
Since July 1st 2022 ,
UK
3:29.23 - Jake Wightman
3:29.38 - Josh Kerr
3:30.60 - Neil Gourley
3:30.92 - Elliot Giles
3:30.95 - George Mills
3:31.08 - Jake Hayward
3:31.30 - Matthew Stonier
Austrailia
3:29.41 - Oli Hoare
3:30.18 - Stewart Mcsweyn
3:31.81 - Adam Spencer
Spain
3:28.89 - Mo Katir
3:29.18 - Mario Garcia
3:31.43 - Adel Mechaal
Kenya
3:29.08 - Tim Cheruiyot
3:29.11 - Abel Kipsang
3:30.3 - Reynold Cheruiyot
3:31.28 - Vincent Kibet
(Plus USA, because this is a USA website) 3:29.02 - Yared Nuguse 3:30.70 - Cole Hocker
Ethiopia - 2
Norway - 2
etc.
British are better at 1500m/mile than longer distance events than other distance because of genetics (talking here about Brits of Caucasian descent as with the seven noted above).
At sprint distances a far higher percentage of people of West African descent are genetically likely to be elite sprinters (Britain has several excellent sprinters of West African descent).
In general a far higher percentage of people of East African descent are genetically like to be elite distance runners (Britain had an exceptional example in Mo Farah).
It appears that people of Caucasian descent are much more likely to have the speed/stamina mix for 800m/1500m/mile than other distances, and are very competitive. There is probably a British perception that if you are a Caucasian runner - given the Wooderson, Bannister, Ovett, Coe, Cram and now Kerr or Holmes and Muir on the female side history - you can be competitive in those events. There is certainly a focus in that area, with things like the British Milers Club.
Note that there are always going to be exceptions, but certain populations are going to have a higher percentage of individuals with the genetic credentials for excellence in specific distances.
It is fascinating to think about, but you wonder how much of the world hasn't truly been sampled yet. Elite athletes are still just a fraction of each of those populations you listed, so it could be that cultural unpopularity of track in other places of the world has suppressed discovery.
It’s cyclical and there’s a nice talent boom for GB. Also we should say that Team GB athletes have great access to fast races. Almost all these athletes get cracks on the Diamond League and being based in St Moritz/Europe helps quite a bit as last-minute additions or getting put in over athletes who have to travel. There’re 3-4 Kenyans who ran 3:33-3:34 flat to win Continental Tour Gold meets but don’t get invites to DL races and can’t just jump into these European DL meets late while being based in Kenya.
You think Ovett would beat JIMBO and his legendary 3.24? I need to see your comprehensive DVTT(tm) analysis of the specific race to support your theory. Do you mean his 3.39 at Hengelo in 81 with a 52 first lap? But Coe ran 3.31.95 in his own race same year with a 52sec first lap.... so if Ovett was at 3.23 then Coe was 3.19!!!! Why do you overlook this obvious fact?
3:30
- 2s waving
-2s shoes
-2s pacing
-1s training
gives 3:23 at minimum
Coe would be around 3:24, Crammy 3:25, Elliott 3:26 when not working in a steel factory
State sponsored doping orchestrated by Lord Coeverup. Brits know they can't compete with natural born runners from East Africa, so they resort to full throttle EPO and Loughborough University roiding. Plus the fact that obviously Jake Wightman and Josh Kerr have some East African ancestry from colonial days. Jake's cranium looks remarkably similar to the fuzzywuzzy tribe of the remote North East Rift Valley. Perhaps his great grandfather was stationed there in the 19th century and married a local woman? And Josh Kerr is clearly at least 20% Sudanese refugee, as you can tell from his hip to wrist to calf to shades ratios.
Kenya had eight men under 3:33 in 2003. This year they had three, despite a doubling in the population. In 2003 they had eight men under 13:00, this year only two. In the 10000m they had 8 men under 27:30 in 2003, and eight under 27:30 this year. If it was a case of 'talent going to the roads', why are the figures so marked for the 1500 and 5000 and not for the 10000m?
Also, looking at the marathon, if we say that the super shoes of today give you 3 minutes in the marathon, which seems about the average consensus, then the depth of times is pretty much the same as 2003. This year there were 71 Kenyans under 2:10, and in 2003 there were 76 under 2:13.
Kenya had eight men under 3:33 in 2003. This year they had three, despite a doubling in the population. In 2003 they had eight men under 13:00, this year only two. In the 10000m they had 8 men under 27:30 in 2003, and eight under 27:30 this year. If it was a case of 'talent going to the roads', why are the figures so marked for the 1500 and 5000 and not for the 10000m?
Also, looking at the marathon, if we say that the super shoes of today give you 3 minutes in the marathon, which seems about the average consensus, then the depth of times is pretty much the same as 2003. This year there were 71 Kenyans under 2:10, and in 2003 there were 76 under 2:13.
Kenya has 4 men under 3:32 this year - T. Cheruiyot, Kipsang, R. Cheruiyot, Keter
When you do include roads ~24 Kenyans are under 27:30 this year but some never or rarely race track (doesn't include Daniel Simiu Ebenyo)
5000 in 2003 had 10 under 13:05 with 12:48 - 13:01 spread while this year its 10 again but 12:46-13:04 (including Reynold on the roads)
Kenya had eight men under 3:33 in 2003. This year they had three, despite a doubling in the population. In 2003 they had eight men under 13:00, this year only two. In the 10000m they had 8 men under 27:30 in 2003, and eight under 27:30 this year. If it was a case of 'talent going to the roads', why are the figures so marked for the 1500 and 5000 and not for the 10000m?
Also, looking at the marathon, if we say that the super shoes of today give you 3 minutes in the marathon, which seems about the average consensus, then the depth of times is pretty much the same as 2003. This year there were 71 Kenyans under 2:10, and in 2003 there were 76 under 2:13.
10 Kenyans up to 3:35.15 (5 Brits)
2003: 13 Kenyans (0 Brits)
In depth, Kenya still is the best middle distance nation currently.
Is the staff & Editors of this site not all US based?
However, the message board is made up of Europeans accusing one another of being Americans. Every athletics news story on NRK, the Norwegian national news, can for instance be traced back to this message board. Essentially all running-related chat activity in Norway has moved to this site.
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