Nothing really wrong with the photos but they do push those lines and warrant being questioned. If you aren't prepared for that very mild critique maybe you shouldn't share your work. The response to a reasonable comment is pathetic and rude they should have ignored it or reached out in private to talk about the intent. The hate they are sharing with the comments retroactively makes the original critique seem valid when the photos alone didn’t.
I think a lot of us could peg Ben Crawford as a wanker a long time ago, walking around as an adult at high school meets going on about "gay son or thot daughter" like lmao what you absolute clown?!?
if this disappointedly out of touch photo shoot can be called art then it is supposed to invite discussion & critique (and Emma's comment was very innocuous). I mean the photos were honestly trash in terms of concept with good lighting and pretty teenagers
Ben, no amount of proclaiming you are saving/ changing/ revitalizing track and field makes it true. i get it, you're now fitting in some size small clothes for once and think all of a sudden you're the man or you're hot s*** or something surrounded in your little bubble sleep away camp with high schoolers, oh no no no. grow up and get your head out of your a$$ pls and thank you
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Hey y’all. I was a female camper at new gen camp 2023 and here’s the reality. Believe me or don’t but I have nothing to hide. Ryder Lee is an amazing photographer and the theme was a y2k style bulling shoot. We were all in the media room and just sat and thought “hey wouldn’t this be funny. ” and started bouncing ideas around. it was especially hilarious to us because Jackson and Hattie are some of the kindest people ever. It’s wasn’t deep at all. it wasn’t even an actual toilet. There was a fishtank with a newly bought toilet seat set up. Ryder himself even tried it out. We all just giggled at those photos.
nothing was about attention, it was about which photographer wanted who for the photoshoots and who had time. Ryder, along with other media kids, would spend HOURS and would even stay up till 4 am or later to try to get all of their work done. By then end of camp everyone was exhausted because we poured our hearts into everything we did at camp.
as for what we learned. It was about NIL deals, reaching out to potential clients and companies, how to market ourselves and our content, creating connections in running media, storytelling, intentions, etc.etc. The counselors were always available to us and helped us as much as they could with the week we had. Although to be honest, I learned the most from the campers around me. They all have a vision, either in running or in media, and truly are chasing their dreams constantly.
I can say on my life that Ryder, nor anyone at our camp, would say the homophobic comments that were made. Kids can be trolls. I understand how the situation can be seen as problematic and the homophobic comments are inexcusable however that truly doesn’t and shouldn’t reflect on New Gen let alone the campers involved at all. If a Taylor Swift fan is racist, that doesn’t mean Taylor Swift and her entire fan base is racist. You don’t get mad at 2000s movies for putting a girl in an actual swirly, and I bet most of you still enjoy watching mean girls.
the goal of the photoshoot wasn’t to spark conversation or to send an underlying message. It was literally just fun for all. If you don’t like it then scroll or sure go ahead leave a comment calling it disappointing. Making a whole scene out of it and constantly replying back to a bunch of teenagers just to spark a fight seems more immature to me. She could’ve hit up Ben and been like “yo get your kids right” or sent Matt a “hey this photoshoot didn’t sit right with me and here’s why.” She didn’t do that. She immediately went for Ryder Lees balls and started calling him a misogynist with photos “that reek of the male gaze.” All from one photoshoot that we all had fun with.
As for Kailey and Hattie. I didn’t talk to them much but I know enough to where none of you have the right to be making assumptions on them. They are kind and hardworking women that literally just had some fun w the photos.
If any of us actually got assaulted we’d be going crazy about it I promise you. We do media on the daily. It would’ve already been out.
No one knows what happened at camp. No one knows who the kids actually are. Only we do. If you want to poorly on it then go ahead but everyone involved at New Gen are genuinely amazing and talented people. Trust me when I tell you I’d be the first to crap on anyone if they royally messed up.
I bet hard money that none of you have had a genuine conversation with any of us and therefore don’t actually know what you’re talking about especially when it comes to New Gen itself. To us you all just sound poorly misinformed and looking for a fight with some teenagers.
Hey y’all. I was a female camper at new gen camp 2023 and here’s the reality. Believe me or don’t but I have nothing to hide. Ryder Lee is an amazing photographer and the theme was a y2k style bulling shoot. We were all in the media room and just sat and thought “hey wouldn’t this be funny. ” and started bouncing ideas around. it was especially hilarious to us because Jackson and Hattie are some of the kindest people ever. It’s wasn’t deep at all. it wasn’t even an actual toilet. There was a fishtank with a newly bought toilet seat set up. Ryder himself even tried it out. We all just giggled at those photos.
nothing was about attention, it was about which photographer wanted who for the photoshoots and who had time. Ryder, along with other media kids, would spend HOURS and would even stay up till 4 am or later to try to get all of their work done. By then end of camp everyone was exhausted because we poured our hearts into everything we did at camp.
as for what we learned. It was about NIL deals, reaching out to potential clients and companies, how to market ourselves and our content, creating connections in running media, storytelling, intentions, etc.etc. The counselors were always available to us and helped us as much as they could with the week we had. Although to be honest, I learned the most from the campers around me. They all have a vision, either in running or in media, and truly are chasing their dreams constantly.
I can say on my life that Ryder, nor anyone at our camp, would say the homophobic comments that were made. Kids can be trolls. I understand how the situation can be seen as problematic and the homophobic comments are inexcusable however that truly doesn’t and shouldn’t reflect on New Gen let alone the campers involved at all. If a Taylor Swift fan is racist, that doesn’t mean Taylor Swift and her entire fan base is racist. You don’t get mad at 2000s movies for putting a girl in an actual swirly, and I bet most of you still enjoy watching mean girls.
the goal of the photoshoot wasn’t to spark conversation or to send an underlying message. It was literally just fun for all. If you don’t like it then scroll or sure go ahead leave a comment calling it disappointing. Making a whole scene out of it and constantly replying back to a bunch of teenagers just to spark a fight seems more immature to me. She could’ve hit up Ben and been like “yo get your kids right” or sent Matt a “hey this photoshoot didn’t sit right with me and here’s why.” She didn’t do that. She immediately went for Ryder Lees balls and started calling him a misogynist with photos “that reek of the male gaze.” All from one photoshoot that we all had fun with.
As for Kailey and Hattie. I didn’t talk to them much but I know enough to where none of you have the right to be making assumptions on them. They are kind and hardworking women that literally just had some fun w the photos.
If any of us actually got assaulted we’d be going crazy about it I promise you. We do media on the daily. It would’ve already been out.
No one knows what happened at camp. No one knows who the kids actually are. Only we do. If you want to poorly on it then go ahead but everyone involved at New Gen are genuinely amazing and talented people. Trust me when I tell you I’d be the first to crap on anyone if they royally messed up.
I bet hard money that none of you have had a genuine conversation with any of us and therefore don’t actually know what you’re talking about especially when it comes to New Gen itself. To us you all just sound poorly misinformed and looking for a fight with some teenagers.
I think everyone understands that the photoshoot was consensual, no one was actually getting bullied, and that Hattie wasn’t actually stuck in a toilet. How could you even get a camera under her face in a real toilet? I don’t think any of those assumptions are what people are concerned about.
However, it’s 100% true what Emma posted about Ryder being the only person following and one of two being followed by the “Jamarcus” account as of this morning. That really does point to him being the owner of the account. I mean, I can’t prove it’s him, but most of us are literate enough in social media to understand what that indicates. And the comments that account left (as well as it’s design as a troll account in general) are really disgusting. They’re more than just being immature; they’re cruel in a way that 17 or 18 year olds can understand are wrong. I know you may feel “well, you don’t know us!” but why would an objective observer believe that Ryder doesn’t run that account, and that it doesn’t reflect his character?
I know it doesn’t feel good to feel like your friends are being “attacked” but honestly I feel like most of this escalated due to the immaturity and resentment to mild criticism from the New Gen campers. Part of working in media is learning how to handle criticism constructively and respond to the audience your work touches. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to think that this was a poor showing from the New Gen crew. Yeah, we don’t know them personally, but what they’re putting out into the world doesn’t seem all that great.
I have to wake up at 5 am, so sorry if my typing skills and the auto-correct aren't perfect right now. I and other campers understand that not everyone is going to like our work. Everyone has a right to their opinion. Personally, I think everyone could've handled the situation in a way better manner, but I find it harsh that people are now making terrible assumptions about people I care for.
You can defend the actions all you want, but there was nothing funny about that photo depicting drowning of a girl from another girl in the detail you all claim to have “poured your” heart out editing. Violence against women is a real thing and if you ever become a victim of abuse you’d quickly change your tune.
That's the type of excuse people use for wearing blackface. "Oh, our intentions were good you just misunderstood what we're doing"
I'll admit I'm against cancel culture and I do thing the misogyny talk is a bit overblown but that's not really the issue. The issue is a post grad kid hanging out with a bunch of high schoolers and publicizing content like this. Not only does it make the interactions with the staff of this camp look creepy but also, what message does it convey to their audience?
Imagine a high school freshman looks up to these kids and new gen and then sees a girl getting stuffed in a locker, or a kid with their head down a toilet. What does that encourage them to act like in their own life?
If you talk about marketing running and then do stunts like this it makes it seem like "marketing running" is really just a ploy for kids to flock to you so you can make them do your little pet projects.
same camper. respectfully I agree. Everyone could've responded better and it honestly was blown way out of proportion. We understand how the photos can make people uncomfortable in a sense and for that, I think everyone is apologetic. Genuinely the intention was just harmless fun. some trolls crapping on it are out of my control but those were inexcusable, but if you truly believe that it's Ryder then that has nothing to do with the other campers. Things may appear poorly and that's understandable, but try to keep in mind that New Gen and its campers are all just people with thoughts and feelings too.
Yeah. I'm sincerely wondering what message they were trying to convey with this shoot. What new insights am I gaining into the personality and perspective of Jackson H. or other athletes featured in the photos? What am I meant to learn about the next generation of young runners? I think there could be lots of ways to do a photo shoot involving lockers, school bathrooms, school crushes, etc. They could focus on locker decor of top runners, girls meeting up to share secrets in the bathroom, star athletes like Jackson being treated as school "golden boys"- tropes like that. In the comments the New Gen kids were trying to talk about the "creative message" or whatever of the shoot, but honestly, they probably needed to refine that message.
In theory, I think the New Gen camp could be a cool concept. The "counselors" and New Gen founders are mostly young professionals doing creative work in the running industry. Bringing them together with teens who want to follow the same path could be a great opportunity to share knowledge and build mentorship networks. However, it's not clear from what they share that the adults in charge are mindful of keeping necessary guardrails in place when running programming for teens. I'm also not sure how much of the camp is about learning craft, and how much is about ginning up New Gen clout amongst the high school crowd. Are the counselors teaching the campers about pitching, setting rates, communicating with clients, and building their personal brand? Are they learning about the best platforms for making and sharing deliverables, storyboarding, layout variations, consistent branding across mediums/platforms, and multimedia projects? Or is it mostly just highly stylized photoshoots and instagram reels featuring some of the most popular teen runners, which therefore garner likes and influence amongst the average high school runner? I sincerely wish I could hear from someone who's attended the camp about what they actually learn and what sort of safety guidelines are in place between the kids and adults. I think it would help me understand how to feel about it the whole situation and about New Gen as a brand.
Agree. And I also the irony of runners as being in photoshoots as the “cool kids” kinda makes me laugh. Kinda makes me wonder what these kids are like in school actually
Not a top national runner but I was popular in HS and most of the top guys on our team over the years were, not everyone was dorky and weird in running
As a woman who faced a lot of childhood abuse and a person and as an athlete you can rest assured that I say what I say with full knowledge of being genuinely put down as a woman. Stop assuming things about people you don't know.
Right, tell that to your future employers when you conduct yourselves poorly “we’re just people with thoughts and feelings.” Also Marketing 101, when you provoke negative feelings to your audience and receive backlash, you learn from it, own it and for God sake don’t turn it around and say “but Emma should’ve privately messaged us!” Change happens when people collectively pushback or push for something they believe in and in this case, you all dropped the shoe on this one.
As a woman who faced a lot of childhood abuse and a person and as an athlete you can rest assured that I say what I say with full knowledge of being genuinely put down as a woman. Stop assuming things about people you don't know.
go to sleep don't listen to these people on letsrun/online they don't know better than you know yourself no need to bother convincing them
As a woman who faced a lot of childhood abuse and a person and as an athlete you can rest assured that I say what I say with full knowledge of being genuinely put down as a woman. Stop assuming things about people you don't know.
go to sleep don't listen to these people on letsrun/online they don't know better than you know yourself no need to bother convincing them
IMO y'all are still young and shouldn't be worried about this stuff.
You can defend the actions all you want, but there was nothing funny about that photo depicting drowning of a girl from another girl in the detail you all claim to have “poured your” heart out editing. Violence against women is a real thing and if you ever become a victim of abuse you’d quickly change your tune.
Not to mention the sexual nature of some of the photos. Not good.
That Ryder guy is an idiot. People that know nothing about photography keep encouraging him to continue being trash. He takes idiotic pictures of people doing idiotic things from idiotic angles and everyone pretends that it's art. "Bro don't miss," they say, well, actually he does because 50% of his crap has horrible composition and isn't even in focus and it's not intentional. The other "photographer" simply takes crappy pictures and makes everything black & white because, that makes it art... of course! Using cheap, lame, tired tricks with a cheap camera and a moronic, uneducated audience doesn't make you a photographer.
None of these idiots could actually date any of these young women that are lured there, the girls go for the experience and camaraderie and the boys are there to hopefully get a glimpse of a stray nipple or even better, one of the girls may actually talk to them.
The title of the thread is disgusting calling teenagers misogynistic and new gen as awhole for posting a staged picture of someone being bullied is extreme. Describing these pictures as violence against women is an aggregious exaggeration. They may not sit right, but it's unfair to paint them this way.
My main qualm is the poor reaction to criticism. I can't comprehend the ego someone must have when someone interrupts their "art" and instead of maybe explaining their perspective and possibly looking at how to improve they blow up discredit them basically saying you just don't get it.
I think a lot of us could peg Ben Crawford as a wanker a long time ago, walking around as an adult at high school meets going on about "gay son or thot daughter" like lmao what you absolute clown?!?
the fact that this was the main point (and thumbnail) of a video recapping Nuttycombe XC, as if they couldn't possibly think of anything better, just trying to be different/edgy/cool, stinks of immaturity and for an 'organisation' that wants to continue to partner with On, Nike, (etc)?? The NYC Marathon interviews were just as bad; mocking the crowds who came to watch who clearly were casual observers & now idolising Nikki Hiltz specifically for getting kicked off Oregon T&F for partying too much...
It's stuff like this that limit their brand's growth, ironic for a group of guys who want to 'push T&F forward' when in reality the majority of their popularity isn't organic it's only from leaning on their childhood friendships with guys who are now elite athletes.
This camp is kind of creepy. (As solely an outside observer)
As someone who’s gone to plenty of camps, there is supposed to be a clear and firm line between the campers and the adults at an overnight camp. I have absolutely no doubt that the “staff” at this camp seem to be on much more even-footing with the campers than they should be. Gross. The feeling should always be that the staff are fun and nice, but there should be a degree of separation between staff and camper that this camp just feels like it doesn’t have.
The fact that a lot of the campers are probably 18 makes it even weirder, especially for the ones who are not. Yeah, feels pretty groomer-y. If I saw my kid at this strange, ego-jerking, vanity camp I’d be asking some hard questions of the adults involved. 22-25 year old dudes running a sleepaway camp for 17-18 year olds? What could go wrong? Like, just hire a few 30-50 year old supervisors with education experience to add some legitimacy to this absolute s***-show…