Top 25 High School Distance Boys Runners of All Time

Lukas went through a mile in 4:12 and was all but alone for the last 3 laps. I get that the Brooks race wasn't ideal pacing, but I hardly doubt a pro race would help them shave off 5 seconds because most likely it will also be not ideal pacing.

He closed in 3:03. I would argue that alone already makes it a better performance than LV’s. 4:12 was very close to ideal pacing for LV - he avg 4:14 pace.

I don’t know why I was posting as Frank Pentangeli earlier, sorry guys.

I do think there are a few kids who have been capable of faster than 8:29.46, but the fact that nobody’s come within 3.5 seconds at either 2 mile or 3200 indicates it’s not especially weak. World Athletics puts it as equal to 3:58.13, 7:52.95 (3k), and 13:31.31. And it’s not surprising that there would be more high school kids capable of 3:58.1 than the marks at the longer distances.

freekiprop is right, the 2011 Pre Classic hardly seems like it was the ideal scenario for Verzbicas to run his fastest time. He finished last by 8 seconds (in a race where Kipchoge was 6th), completely overmatched and out on his own to stay focused on running as fast as possible. It’s very hard to guess who would win in a 2 mile between Verzbicas, Sahlman, Birnbaum and a number of others.

But Verzbicas won back-to-back Footlocker titles, never seriously challenged, the first when he was 16. After the second he doubled up and won NXN. He won the 5k/2 mile/mile triple at New Balance Indoors, clocking 8:40 in the 2 mile. When he broke 4 he was the 5th U.S. high schooler to do so and the first in a decade; he won a high school only race in the rain, putting 25 meters on Cheserek. Nobody had any doubts as to who was the top distance runner of the 2011 grad class. He had a better high school career than Birnbaum, and by a good margin.

“Colin Sahlman would have been wrecked by Birnbaum this track season.” Come on, it’s fine if you think Birnbaum would have beaten him, but you act like it’s no contest when every indication is it would have been very close and pushed both to their limits. Sahlman ran 1:48.07/3:56.24/8:33.32 (3200)—that’s legit! What clearly gives him the edge overall in my opinion is that he was dominant in XC his Sr. year, culminating in a 14:03 win at Running Lane vs. the best in the country. I suspect you just don’t care for Newbury Park for whatever reason.

Oh, and I wasn’t around to watch Jeff Nelson or Eric Hulst either since I was born in 1992, but I’ve tried to brush up on the history on this doodad called the internet.

Born in 1992. Bruh.

The way you defend Ryun. I though you raced against him personally.

Re: the 2 mile. Lukas was the only person who had a setup affair in a pro style race. German wasn’t particularly interested in running faster and his mark was the threshold at the time.

Peak Webb & Hobbs I think could’ve wrecked it but they were bordering world class in their main events.

The race at Brooks. High school only, no rabbit…4:24 first mile. Essentially a tactical race. I don’t think Lukas wins that race.

I also think Webb and Kessler could have beaten 8:29.46, but probably not shattered it.

Yeah if Verzbicas had just gone along for the ride at Brooks PR (4:22 first mile—the splits are for 1618.68) I think Birnbaum would have beaten him. If Verzbicas had run sub-8:30 from the front (not easy to do), he may have had a chance. I actually think Birnbaum was close to losing the rope in the 6th lap at Arcadia, but he hung on and was able to employ his kick. I don’t think it’s impossible for another high schooler to drop him in the middle of a race, but if he’s still there on the last lap his kick will always be there.

But let me clarify, “who would win in a 2 mile” and “greatest high school distance runners” are considerably different lists to me.

It's an interesting list. Personally I would never try to make all these comparisons, and supershoes REALLY muddy the waters but I'm still prepared to make some comments! A) I think your first six is not a bad start, although I'm not 100% convinced Craig VIrgin belongs in it. B) One can absolutely make the case that Jim Ryun is not the greatest High School distance runner -- just go to your #2: second fastest high school miler ever when he left HS, a 5000 meter HS record that was not broken for 40 years, an indoor HS 2-mile record that lasted even longer, won the US-USSR dual meet 10,000 meters and won the US Olympic Trials 10000 meters, defeating the man who WON the Olympic 10,000 later the same year. Gerry Lindgren also had greater range than anyone on this list. C) Sometimes there's too much hype about him, but Pre still deserves to be much higher up on this list. He finished 4th (3rd American) in the (senior) US 3-mile championships as a HS senior and competed for the US internationally that summer on the senior team -- who else on this list save Lindgren and Ryun can say they did that? I think he maybe ranks ahead of Virgin. D) Rudy Chapa also belongs higher up. At a time when runners from different regions of the country rarely competed against each other, he was untouchable in the Midwest at distances/XC, top five (at least) nationally at 2-miles, perhaps the same at one mile and ran a 10,000 that qualified him for the Olympic trials in 1976 (again, who on this list can claim that?) and has not been approached by a HSer since then. Unlike Ryun, Lindgren, and Pre, he did a fair amount of his running on artificial surface tracks and had slightly better shoes, but like them, he didn't have super shoes or today's other training methods/equipment/nutrition, E) I think German Fernandez probably belongs higher on the list also -- he was so dominant vis-a-vis his peers. F) As others have noted, Liquori may belong higher on this list just for the sub-4 achievement in the 1960's. My memory is that he was strong at 1/2 mile and 2-mile in HS as well, but I can't find any data. I guess the same argument could be made about Tim Danielson, but I know pretty much nothing about him besides his sub-4 (the only one he ever ran, by the way). G) Eric Hulst may also belong higher: low 8:40s in the 2-mile, 28:55 for 10,000 (still #2 all-time HS behind his rival Chapa (I don't think they ever met in a race), world under-20 XC champion.

Tinoda Matsatsa should be on the honorable mentions list! A little hard to compare because he never raced cross country and (as far as I know) anything above a mile, but I think 3:58 and 1:49 is certainly deserving of a mention.

He ran 1:47.61 yesterday

Lukas was not "out on his own"; he had a personal pacer (Stephen Haas) who deliberately ran splits off of the main race until the final lap.

Does anyone actually watch track here?

You get heavily downvoted, while the guy saying C. Sahlman had the best overall career gets heavily upvoted, but I think your point is valid, when you look at what they did on the track.

Scratch my last post, as I missed Sahlman’s 8:33.32.

It would be an incredible race to have lined them up. But wasn’t C. Sahlman a bit older for a high school senior, since he is a couple of years older than Birnbaum?

Birnbaum is very young for a senior. Colin was slightly old for his grade. June 2005 vs October 2003. Neither are above or below the grade cutoff, both are well within the 'normal' age range

One more question, which really could be a factor in settling this:

Does Simeon Birnbaum’s results at the upcoming USATF factor into his high school body of work?

If the answer to this question is “yes”, then maybe some of you want to start speculating where his standing falls in the list, depending on his results.

For instance, maybe he has a 10% chance of making the team, but if he were to do so, would that not propel him up into the Ryan, Lindgren, Webb territory?

*Ryun

We only have Birnbaum’s word on it, but he said he was contemplating targeting the 800m record this season, before he tweaked his hammy. His speed is deceptive.

No, I guess you must be the only one.

You’re mistaken/misleading in your description of the setup. Haas and Verzbicas were hanging right on the back of the single file elite field through 2k, and Haas dropped with just under 800 to go (1 lap later) so it’s not like Verzbicas was escorted to the finish or anything. That’s still almost 800m of being on his own watching the leaders get further away, versus battling for the win until the final strides like we’ve seen recently.

Haha 10% chance

1%>

Do you think he even advances in the rounds?