I think you wait to late to introduce specific 5k workouts. Your “taper” your kinda ramping up those workouts which really increases the intensity so not really tapering in my opinion. I mean a two meet week I would just do a threshold workout but otherwise after 4-5 weeks of your training you have already I would start vo2max workouts at least every other week along with a threshold workout each week.
SomeDudeCoaching wrote:
Can I ask the reason for not liking a few 400s 3 days prior to the goal race?
If the 400s are at 5K race pace you would probably be fine with 2 min recovery, I’d probably have them do something like 1 mile @ tempo, 3-4x400m @5k Race Pace & then finish with 2x200m
I read the first week, and stopped to reply. Have you done any base training in the summer? If not, why do intervals and time trials so early? The kids need to build their base first. There is a level of training that has to be done before you transition into the stuff you are suggesting.
SomeDudeCoaching wrote:
Hey all, I've taken on coaching my old high school (smaller school in Michigan). I knew the previous coach as a family friend and even my coach from 10 years ago. The training was very minimal and "fun" based. I'm looking to keep the fun in order to keep participation, but wanted to get your feedback on the training I'm setting up. In the past, our school has raced in excess around 13 or 14 times. I'm dialing it back to 10 meets (11 if I get any athletes to state). Hard to go much less than that in Michigan since we run multiple conference jamborees throughout the season.
Obviously, any good coach adapts week-to-week and day-to-day with training based on how the athletes feel, and that will be the case here as well. Here is the outline I have starting with the first week of practice. I have them running easy mileage for the most part all summer, this is the first time they've been given a summer training plan, so I'm just hoping they'll all get some decent mileage in this summer.
I also break down the athletes in to groups A-C. A being most experience and C being freshman/least experienced.
Week 1:
Monday: Easy Run + Strides
Tuesday: 2 Mile time trial (Used to determine fitness and early season workout paces)
Wednesday: 1K Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:15 recovery (A&B run 5 reps, C run 4 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills (Workout determined by how athletes legs feel)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 2:
Monday: Long Run (A: 9 / B: 7 / C: 5)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Tempo Run (A: 22' / B: 20' / C: 18')
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills (Workout determined by how athletes legs feel)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 3:
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Mile Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:30 recovery (A&B run 3 reps, C runs 2 reps + 1 800)
Thursday: Easy Run
Friday: Twilight Meet (Medium sized invitational)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 4:
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: "Rustbuster" Meet (Medium sized invitational)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Tempo Run (A: 24' / B: 22' / C: 20')
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 5:
Monday: Long Run (A: 11 / B: 9 / C: 7)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Conference Jamboree Meet (Small 7-8 team meet)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: 1K Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:15 recovery (A&B run 6 reps, C runs 5 reps)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 6: (Down week for mileage)
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Tempo Run (A: 26' / B: 24' / C: 22')
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Large Invitational Meet
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 7:
Monday: Long Run (A: 11 / B: 9 / C: 7)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Mile Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w 1:30 recovery (A&B run 4 reps, C runs 3 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Medium-Large Invitational Meet
Sunday: OFF
Week 8: (Peak mileage week 1)
Monday: Long Run (A: 12 / B: 10 / C: 8)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Conference Jamboree Meet (Small 7-8 team meet)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: 800m Repeats @ Race Pace w/ 3:00 recovery
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 9: (Peak mileage week 2)
Monday: Long Run (A: 12 / B: 10 / C: 8)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: 1200m Repeats @ Race Pace w/ 4:00 recovery (A&B runs 5 reps, C runs 4 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Medium Sized Invitational Meet
Sunday: Off
Week 10: (Taper Week 1)
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: 400m Repeats @ Slightly faster than Race Pace w/ 1:30 - 2:00 recovery (A runs 12 reps, B runs 10 reps, C runs 8 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills/Light Workout (TBD)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 11: (Taper Week 2)
Monday: Easy Run + Strides
Tuesday: Conference Finals Meet (Goal race B)
Wednesday: Easy/Recovery Run
Thursday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Friday: County Meet
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 12: (Taper Week 3)
Monday: Long Run (A: 8 / B: 7 / C: 5)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Final tune-up workout (Thinking along the lines of 1600-1200-800-400 OR 1K - 1K - 500 - 500)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Regional Meet (Goal race A)
Sunday: Off
I have 1-3 athletes that appear to have the potential to make state. The final week of training would be built then with the state meet the Saturday after regionals.
Any feedback is helpful. I've guided myself post-collegiately successfully in the past, but am trying to tune down to high schoolers without great training experience. I'm a firm believer in doing lots of tempo/threshold work and building a large engine, which is something this group is likely lacking.
Looks like a well-thought-out plan to me coach. I’d go with it and keep an open mind about adjustments as you see kids develop and respond. your group might need tweaks in the tempo stuff but go for it pretty much as is. Congratulations on being a thoughtful coach!
Too many meets but if you can't avoid them, just treat them as practice or simply tell kids to loaf some of them. Or have some kids sit out each meet.
I think 5 or 6 all out efforts is the max any athlete should be asked to produce in a season and not more than 2 in a row.
The 400s would be run a goal race pace, with a careful eye to ensure they don't over-exert. If they were to overdo it, the workout would get ended early.
I am opposed to doing a mix of tempos and intervals in one workout. Even if its as simple as a short tempo and a few fast 400s, mixing the two works 2 energy systems, which puts more strain on the athlete and recovery takes longer.
This was something that we used to implement in college, and we underperformed in meets following a workout like that, once we made the change to one energy system or the other, we all felt much sharper and produced a conference championship and highest nationals finish from it.
Yes, the majority of the athletes have been following a summer training plan at different levels of execution.
I'd love to get it down to around 8 meets a year, but we have 5 pre-scheduled meets that I have no choice in (3 conference meets, a county meet, and regionals). Still trying to give the kids some opportunities at some invitationals. Previous years the team was running 13-14 races, so this is an improvement. Unfortunately, in our state there tends to be a lot more required meets.
What I've learned that that I have to have a basic layout in my mind, but I can't plan workouts more than one week out. We just have SO many school activities, weather situations, you name it... so much comes up that having some 6 week plan is impossible.
What good does it do to have a big key workout planned and then you have crap weather, or it's some testing day or whatever and half the kids aren't there?
SomeDudeCoaching wrote:
Hey all, I've taken on coaching my old high school (smaller school in Michigan). I knew the previous coach as a family friend and even my coach from 10 years ago. The training was very minimal and "fun" based. I'm looking to keep the fun in order to keep participation, but wanted to get your feedback on the training I'm setting up. In the past, our school has raced in excess around 13 or 14 times. I'm dialing it back to 10 meets (11 if I get any athletes to state). Hard to go much less than that in Michigan since we run multiple conference jamborees throughout the season.
Obviously, any good coach adapts week-to-week and day-to-day with training based on how the athletes feel, and that will be the case here as well. Here is the outline I have starting with the first week of practice. I have them running easy mileage for the most part all summer, this is the first time they've been given a summer training plan, so I'm just hoping they'll all get some decent mileage in this summer.
I also break down the athletes in to groups A-C. A being most experience and C being freshman/least experienced.
Week 1:
Monday: Easy Run + Strides
Tuesday: 2 Mile time trial (Used to determine fitness and early season workout paces)
Wednesday: 1K Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:15 recovery (A&B run 5 reps, C run 4 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills (Workout determined by how athletes legs feel)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 2:
Monday: Long Run (A: 9 / B: 7 / C: 5)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Tempo Run (A: 22' / B: 20' / C: 18')
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills (Workout determined by how athletes legs feel)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 3:
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Mile Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:30 recovery (A&B run 3 reps, C runs 2 reps + 1 800)
Thursday: Easy Run
Friday: Twilight Meet (Medium sized invitational)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 4:
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: "Rustbuster" Meet (Medium sized invitational)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Tempo Run (A: 24' / B: 22' / C: 20')
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 5:
Monday: Long Run (A: 11 / B: 9 / C: 7)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Conference Jamboree Meet (Small 7-8 team meet)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: 1K Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w/ 1:15 recovery (A&B run 6 reps, C runs 5 reps)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 6: (Down week for mileage)
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Tempo Run (A: 26' / B: 24' / C: 22')
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Large Invitational Meet
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery and other OFF
Week 7:
Monday: Long Run (A: 11 / B: 9 / C: 7)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Mile Repeats @ Tempo Interval Pace w 1:30 recovery (A&B run 4 reps, C runs 3 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Medium-Large Invitational Meet
Sunday: OFF
Week 8: (Peak mileage week 1)
Monday: Long Run (A: 12 / B: 10 / C: 8)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Conference Jamboree Meet (Small 7-8 team meet)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: 800m Repeats @ Race Pace w/ 3:00 recovery
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 9: (Peak mileage week 2)
Monday: Long Run (A: 12 / B: 10 / C: 8)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: 1200m Repeats @ Race Pace w/ 4:00 recovery (A&B runs 5 reps, C runs 4 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Medium Sized Invitational Meet
Sunday: Off
Week 10: (Taper Week 1)
Monday: Long Run (A: 10 / B: 8 / C: 6)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: 400m Repeats @ Slightly faster than Race Pace w/ 1:30 - 2:00 recovery (A runs 12 reps, B runs 10 reps, C runs 8 reps)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Fartlek/Hills/Light Workout (TBD)
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 11: (Taper Week 2)
Monday: Easy Run + Strides
Tuesday: Conference Finals Meet (Goal race B)
Wednesday: Easy/Recovery Run
Thursday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Friday: County Meet
Saturday/Sunday: One day Easy/Recovery Run and other OFF
Week 12: (Taper Week 3)
Monday: Long Run (A: 8 / B: 7 / C: 5)
Tuesday: Easy Run + Strides
Wednesday: Final tune-up workout (Thinking along the lines of 1600-1200-800-400 OR 1K - 1K - 500 - 500)
Thursday: Easy/Recovery Run
Friday: Easy Run (and possible strides)
Saturday: Regional Meet (Goal race A)
Sunday: Off
I have 1-3 athletes that appear to have the potential to make state. The final week of training would be built then with the state meet the Saturday after regionals.
Any feedback is helpful. I've guided myself post-collegiately successfully in the past, but am trying to tune down to high schoolers without great training experience. I'm a firm believer in doing lots of tempo/threshold work and building a large engine, which is something this group is likely lacking.
Congrats on the planning, unfortunately you're going to have to be flexible to be successful. Be ready to adjust like every other successful coach does.
ffs why do you have a workout the day after a hard TT effort? What is the purpose? To unecessarily fatigue your athlete(s)? There is no point in 8 x 400 hills. You should have two easy days following the TT, then a workout or long run or something thats not a recovery day.
SomeDudeCoaching wrote:
Can I ask the reason for not liking a few 400s 3 days prior to the goal race?
I think overall your schedule is not bad at all, but this is also the thing I would not recommend for different reasons. You have no efforts faster than race pace until the end of the season so they will not be used to it when you do. In my experience they race flat during the championship races using that approach. The taper should be less of everything, same intensities with more rest between. For some athletes you don't need to cut much volume at all.
Also:
- When you say tempo intervals do you really mean LT intervals? It might be good to fluctuate between tempo and threshold depending on the week.
- During the weeks you have races I would recommend doing something other than race pace for the workout as they are already doing that during the race. If you have a couple of weeks between races then it makes more sense.
- The first week of school be prepared for your athletes to be a little "cooked" from a new sleep routine, dehydration, etc... We usually do a light week and then ramp back up after that.
SomeDudeCoaching wrote:
I have had to end quite a few early because athletes did not run them as prescribed, and ran the first ones way too fast, ending up wasted. HS kids are frustrating in that regard.
I agree. I have kids that can perfect pace day one and others in four years never figure it out. I think that leads to some coaches not doing tempo runs and the like. One thought I’ve had is say on a tempo run day or even cruise intervals start off with a hard effort before a short rest and starting the tempo. Putting some lactate into the system and then their more likely to run the tempo on pace. So say run an 800 at 3k pace, rest then a 20min tempo. I like to finish with something quick like 4x200 or 150s etc.
I have no problem with ten meets, if they are done right. Too many HS kids have no clue about how to race, so they need more experience. Well, that was my case, because my kids had come from schools with either no program, or a program with a revolving door of inept MS coaches. our area does not have many local 5k races for the kids to do, either.
I typically do a good summer of base running (25-45 MPW for the vast majority of these inexperienced kids) and set my schedule with a few smaller meets early -on to give them some experience. Mid-season, we take a week off from racing, and then start back up with a meet every 7-10 days. My kids have always peaked later than the area teams, and as they go up in years, the progress is significant because of the amount of races they have under their belt.