I will say that there people have tried to read between the lines and haven't stated many opinions on my original post, though... Also, you misspelled "demeanor."
“They’re people”. Did your mean: there, there, people. Or maybe them thar people Perhaps?
This can be a rough message board but one thing I really like is bs posts like this get called out very quickly.
Literally no BS, real world situation. Give an athlete a chance or don't...but for what reason?
Haha! Your plan was to bring a boy to the meet to illegally pace your female athletes in the Northeast after flipping Jucy Lucy’s at home which is something nobody in the Northeast eats?
I am literally laughing out loud, because I did eat juicy lucys on the grill (I tried a little blue cheese and chedder) in the Northeast, and the next town over has a last chance meet where they let boys pace girls to get a standard. Too funny. Some people on the internet just have to think they know what's really going on. I've been nothing but truthful, including my perhaps needlessly long text tete-a-tete.
So, you think that my athlete shouldn't run? That was kind of the question...I would possibly be the A$$hole if my athlete shouldn't run. If I am an A$$hole for living in the northeast and making midwestern hamburgers, that is another question.
If I am, let me know! Here is the story, via text, verbatim, with identifying details changed. I am the MD/Distance coach.
Background: My girl 800 runner has got close to an 800 qualifying standard this season, but didn't quite make it. I thought of throwing her in a 400 at our next-town-over last-chance meet, because I always thought she had 400 ability, and she was open to the idea...less so to trying another 800.
The text messages between me and the head coach:
Me: It looks like Boy Athlete likes his chances in the 400, and is going to try to run the 400/2 mi. He won't need to enter the last chance meet, but I asked him if he wouldn't mind pacing Girl 300 Hurdler. Also, I think Girl 800 runner may want to jump into a 400, but we aren't quite square on that right now.
Follow up a couple hours later...
ME: So we have Girl 800 runner in the 400, and Boy MD runner can pace Girl Hurdler and Girl 800 runner. I don't know exactly what your plan is for tomorrow, so I will tell them to be in touch.
Editorial: the last chance meet that we run allows athletes to do pace work.
Head Coach: Has she ever run a 400?
ME: She was supposed to run a 400 and had to miss a meet when her grandfather died.
Head Coach: She had other meets? I'm not sure that I'd feel great about her doing an event she hasn't ever done before. It's a last chance meet meaning they're close in their events. She never even ran one in indoor right?
ME: I would bet that Girl 800 runner has a better chance at qualifying in a 400 than Girl Hurdler has in the 300 hurdles. Plus, Meet Hosting Coach doesn't care. Also, Girl 800 runner has done a number of workouts which indicate that she can run a qualifying standard in a 400...
Head Coach: Until she bumps some girl out of the state meet who has been working hard in the 400 all year
Head Coach: I guess I'm just asking where this is coming from when she's had 4 meets and an indoor season.
If she thinks she can run 400 qualifying standard why hasn't she run an open 400
ME: She was supposed to run a 400 already, and she was also supposed to be in 2 4x4's that we ditched on. I don't understand your point about bumping someone else.
Head Coach: She didn't want to run the 4x4, I asked her when I was putting teams together on the weeks we haven't bailed and I've needed someone to run.
Editorial: I would be the person asking/telling the md/distance runner to run a 4x4, and I never heard anything about this...
Me, in reply: I remember watching Graduated Male Race Walker miss out on making the race walk, and surely it's not as much of an incumbrance on the Meet Host coaching staff to have one girl run a 400, and quite frankly, I'm kind of surprised that if there's a person who stands a chance of making it, that there should be any debate. I do know that Girl 800 runner also was planning on running the 4x4 a couple times, and as I said, she was going to run an open 4 when her grandfather died. I don't know what else to say... I really don't understand the friction.
SO...is there anything here that I should be mad about? Am I the jerk? LET ME KNOW!
Is this coach always difficult?
Does this coach have an issue with you making judgement calls like placing an 800 runner into a 400 because it wasn't their call? Does the coach have issues with you generally?
It seems overly weird for them to make a big deal about this, with this athlete being an 800 runner.
I am literally laughing out loud, because I did eat juicy lucys on the grill (I tried a little blue cheese and chedder) in the Northeast, and the next town over has a last chance meet where they let boys pace girls to get a standard. Too funny. Some people on the internet just have to think they know what's really going on. I've been nothing but truthful, including my perhaps needlessly long text tete-a-tete.
You are definitely an a$$hole, not gonna pretend to know if you are THE a$$hole.
Anyways, as per the national rules (which high schools all over the country have to follow) a male can’t pace a female for an official mark, it takes an official mark to qualify for a state meet or some other championship meet like Arcadia or Nike Nationals or what-not. I’m pretty sure females aren’t even allowed to pace females for an official mark, that’s obviously harder to regulate but means you can’t have pacers subbing in/ subbing out etc.
I don’t know what anyone that would be running at that meet would hope to be qualifying for, but it isn’t gonna be any meet worth qualifying for if they are taking seed times from unofficial races.
If I am, let me know! Here is the story, via text, verbatim, with identifying details changed. I am the MD/Distance coach.
Background: My girl 800 runner has got close to an 800 qualifying standard this season, but didn't quite make it. I thought of throwing her in a 400 at our next-town-over last-chance meet, because I always thought she had 400 ability, and she was open to the idea...less so to trying another 800.
The text messages between me and the head coach:
Me: It looks like Boy Athlete likes his chances in the 400, and is going to try to run the 400/2 mi. He won't need to enter the last chance meet, but I asked him if he wouldn't mind pacing Girl 300 Hurdler. Also, I think Girl 800 runner may want to jump into a 400, but we aren't quite square on that right now.
Follow up a couple hours later...
ME: So we have Girl 800 runner in the 400, and Boy MD runner can pace Girl Hurdler and Girl 800 runner. I don't know exactly what your plan is for tomorrow, so I will tell them to be in touch.
Editorial: the last chance meet that we run allows athletes to do pace work.
Head Coach: Has she ever run a 400?
ME: She was supposed to run a 400 and had to miss a meet when her grandfather died.
Head Coach: She had other meets? I'm not sure that I'd feel great about her doing an event she hasn't ever done before. It's a last chance meet meaning they're close in their events. She never even ran one in indoor right?
ME: I would bet that Girl 800 runner has a better chance at qualifying in a 400 than Girl Hurdler has in the 300 hurdles. Plus, Meet Hosting Coach doesn't care. Also, Girl 800 runner has done a number of workouts which indicate that she can run a qualifying standard in a 400...
Head Coach: Until she bumps some girl out of the state meet who has been working hard in the 400 all year
Head Coach: I guess I'm just asking where this is coming from when she's had 4 meets and an indoor season.
If she thinks she can run 400 qualifying standard why hasn't she run an open 400
ME: She was supposed to run a 400 already, and she was also supposed to be in 2 4x4's that we ditched on. I don't understand your point about bumping someone else.
Head Coach: She didn't want to run the 4x4, I asked her when I was putting teams together on the weeks we haven't bailed and I've needed someone to run.
Editorial: I would be the person asking/telling the md/distance runner to run a 4x4, and I never heard anything about this...
Me, in reply: I remember watching Graduated Male Race Walker miss out on making the race walk, and surely it's not as much of an incumbrance on the Meet Host coaching staff to have one girl run a 400, and quite frankly, I'm kind of surprised that if there's a person who stands a chance of making it, that there should be any debate. I do know that Girl 800 runner also was planning on running the 4x4 a couple times, and as I said, she was going to run an open 4 when her grandfather died. I don't know what else to say... I really don't understand the friction.
SO...is there anything here that I should be mad about? Am I the jerk? LET ME KNOW!
Is this coach always difficult?
Does this coach have an issue with you making judgement calls like placing an 800 runner into a 400 because it wasn't their call? Does the coach have issues with you generally?
It seems overly weird for them to make a big deal about this, with this athlete being an 800 runner.
It's my experience that the coach can at times be difficult if it isn't their athlete or their idea. I don't think that's unfair of me to say, because I can think of many occasions where that has been the case, including some very major cases... But I think the fact that you picked that up is very telling.
I am literally laughing out loud, because I did eat juicy lucys on the grill (I tried a little blue cheese and chedder) in the Northeast, and the next town over has a last chance meet where they let boys pace girls to get a standard. Too funny. Some people on the internet just have to think they know what's really going on. I've been nothing but truthful, including my perhaps needlessly long text tete-a-tete.
You are definitely an a$hole, not gonna pretend to know if you are THE a$hole.
Anyways, as per the national rules (which high schools all over the country have to follow) a male can’t pace a female for an official mark, it takes an official mark to qualify for a state meet or some other championship meet like Arcadia or Nike Nationals or what-not. I’m pretty sure females aren’t even allowed to pace females for an official mark, that’s obviously harder to regulate but means you can’t have pacers subbing in/ subbing out etc.
I don’t know what anyone that would be running at that meet would hope to be qualifying for, but it isn’t gonna be any meet worth qualifying for if they are taking seed times from unofficial races.
Beats me, you might be right. I haven't told any untruths, I don't run the last-chance meet, and the athlete is hoping to qualify for the State Meet. In what way does any of this make me the a$$hole?
She is open to the idea but does she actually want to run the 400m?
'We aren't quite square on that right now' - what does that mean?
It sort of seems like she is avoiding running the 400m. I don't mean that she made up that her grandfather died. I mean all of the other stuff.
It sounds like she doesn't want to run another 800m even though she is close to qualifying. Why? Is she just not that into the sport or has she had enough?
If the 400 girl is not taking a spot from anyone else on your team, then I don't understand the drama. Head coach should want to qualify as many athletes as possible, even if it means changing events.
A few years ago I was coaching distance, and we had a good group of 400 runners. Head coach didn't like my suggestion of trying some 400 runners in the 800 (or relay) - because "400 runners are not distance runners". Could have easily scored anywhere from 6-10 points in a big meet. We lost by 5, and head coach was pissed because the "distance runners choked and didn't do their part to help the team."
Who is this head coach? What a buffoon. He/she should be fired. there is no reason the girl cannot run the 400 is she is willing. This makes me so ANGRY. This person should not be “coaching”
I learned not to have these exchanges via text because tensions sometimes arise when they wouldn’t in an actual convo. This is with people I’ve reported to and those reporting to me.
i bet if you went to HC and explained the situation with a little je ne sais quoi, HC would have allowed it all to happen.
To sum it up: i don’t think you took the right approach.
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