Drama at NCAA WEST - Kemboi jogs the 1500 then WINS 10k - She should be DQd

On another thread, someone claims that they did away with the honest effort rule. It was a blatant violation. Even if the rule was repealed, it amounts to non-participation in a declared event. I agree a DQ is in order. It was just way too obvious.

UCR coach I'm guessing.

I saw that. They are wrong, this is from an NCAA rulebook explanation the NCAA published this fall, November 1, 2022:

"A situation that is cited frequently involves a competitor who is physically present at a running event, makes an attempt by participating in the start and then after a very few steps, withdraws from the event or fails to attempt to be competitive during the event. This is not by definition a Failure to Participate, therefore not a situation covered in Indoor Rule 6-2 and Outdoor Rule 14-
2. However, it may be an Honest Effort situation. Contrary to some belief, Honest Effort does exist, and Honest Effort is not the same as Failure to Participate. Honest Effort requires a competitor to compete in an honest and sporting manner to the best of their ability within an event, Indoor Rule 6-1 and Outdoor Rule 14-1. Not doing so is a violation and treated as Misconduct or Unsporting conduct. Unsporting conduct, such as issues of behavior, intentional false starts or non-competitiveness, are all treated in the same manner."

So yes, the honest effort rule is in effect. It exists and this was CLEARLY a blatant example of someone failing to attempt to be competitive during an event.

It was a clear DQ. I have no skin in the game, but that was ridiculously blatant.

I'm not the UCR coach. I am sure he is livid.

I am an NCAA coach. I didn't even have an athlete in the women's 10k. Just tired of coaches not following the rules all over the place and this is a slap in the face to the process and rulebook. Utah Valley coaches are clowns.

"honest effort" is so loosely defined. They need to set better parameters if they want it to be objectively upheld. Best of their ability? What does that actually mean? If someone says they felt sick, and someone else claims that it is BS, how can they really determine it? A percentage of your PR = honest effort? I don't know. The whole thing has too much interpretation.

The fact of the matter is she just demolished everyone. If you get her DQd despite that then you are just a petty pencil pushing nerd. Blame the way the rule is outlined. Coaches and athletes are free to exploit it if the NCAA hasn't defined it so clearly.

It's petty to hold people accountable? To ask they abide by the rules? Keep hearing a lot of this. Blame the NCAA, blame the rule, but not the people who don't follow them? People who are NOT honest.

I would love to hear the Utah Valley coach try to explain this whole situation. She was really sick that she could only muster a 5:12 and then rallied to run 32:05? What was the rationale for entering her in the 1500m, 5000m, 10,000m? Did he mess up and this was his solution? Come on. It is called an HONEST effort rule. This coach is clearly not honest. At the end of the day, you're right, it is unfortunate for Evelyn Kemboi that she is at the center of all this, because her coach is a clown. She deserves to be running at the NCAA Championships, but there needs to be accountability when people pull this type of crap.

Correct. So in the scenario of zones t Effort, she would be disqualified from the 1500m with no bearing on the 10,000m. When a sprinter intentionally false starts, he/she/they are disqualified from the race of mention, not from any other they are entered and have yet to start.

No, the rule pertains to the whole meet, because they are messing with the entire meet structure.

Remember, she took the place of another competitor who would have given a full effort in the 1500 that she walked.

In her 10k, she posted what was probably the fastest closing split this season - 65 second final lap. Seems pretty obvious she could have run the 1500m for real.

Why even declare for the 1500m ? They took a spot from someone else to have a chance making nationals.

I mentioned this in another thread. Tim Rowberry (Sifan Hassans coach) is over there at Utah Valley, I am pretty sure he is the coach but not 100%. Maybe someone knows.

When I saw the crazy triple I remembered reading that he was on staff at Utah Valley and that he coaches Hassan ( who is famous for doubles, triples etc aside from being one of the top runners in the world).

Competitively, we should all want Evelyn Kemboi in the 10k. Her coach is a schmuck who should have only entered her in events she could be competitive in. As a coach, the rules force you to make the tough choices by a certain deadline. I say suspend the Utah Valley head coach for the rest of the meet and the NCAA championship meet. Bar him from being on the property. Then make him write apology letters to each of the athletes impacted by his inability to follow the rules. That's probably the appropriate penalty.

Thats not reassuring.

not in any offical way

gouvu.com

2022-23 Track & Field Roster

The official 2022-23 Track & Field Roster for the Utah Valley University Wolverines

Link:gouvu.com/sports/track-and-field/roste...

That's strange because he is on the site and it is listed on his social media bios

gouvu.com

Tim Rowberry - Assistant Coach (Cross Country/Mid-Distance, Pole Vault) - Track & Field Coaches

Tim Rowberry is beginning his sixth year as an assistant to Utah Valley cross country head coach Scott Houle. He was first hired as a work-study assistant in May

Link:gouvu.com/sports/track-and-field/roste...

Can someone please give a quick run-down of what's at issue here, because several people have alluded to various components, but I need someone to educate those of us that are ignorant.

The honest effort rule is ripe for subjectivity and selective use, so it should be used sparingly unless it has bearing on other athletes or schools

Is her 1500m spot in this meet taking a spot away from another school's runner? Or just HER school's alternate runner? The former is affecting others and the competitive structure as a whole, the latter is intraschool politics and has no bearing on using such an extreme DQ power in the context of this meet.

Was her "start" in the 1500m necessary for some loophole for a later meet or stage? If so, there is grounds to explore that in the context of what she was attempting to loophole. But a stretch, once again, to attack her entire meet.

Did her participation in the 1500m enhance the performance of her school at the meet or the scoring process? Was it mandatory someone run it, in the vein of the shotputters joining the 4x4? Or was it just an early registration that didn't pan out? Would someone or some school have been affected if she DNS'd. Please explain the meet protocol.

Please bear in mind everyone appears to somewhere in 3 camps on the normal letsrun spectrum here. Outright DQ miserable back-in-my-day offended grumps that want to tear down the athlete's ability to race the 10k, DQ in the context of some fairness that needs to be better explained please, or no DQ in the context of having the best athletes in the 10k race and apologize away the malpractice of the coach.

Her 1500m spot would have taken away a spot from whoever was next in line on the list to qualify for regionals. It was not her schools spot.

To answer your other question, after you 'declare' and its official, if you DNS you are out for the whole thing.

So, she had to run.

What is upsetting people is that they declared for a triple (which everyone knew was ridiculous) and then didn't really compete. She took a spot from another runner. But, she HAD to line up or she would have been out of the 5k, 10k as well.

You can argue that "honest effort" isn't clear and the line might be hard to draw, but whatever it is and wherever the line is drawn, it's not honest effort to run a 1500 slower than your 10k pace.