18 yo European girl runs 15:12.94 5000m

She is running well but no reason to disparage the US who went 1-3 in the 800m at World Juniors last year. Caune finished 6th. Look at how well Shea, Riggs and Baloga ran at World XC. Not so convinced Caune is that far ahead of them.

She ran 5000m at U20 WC and was forth, behind africans.

What is difference between pro and non pro in USA? Non pro's train like hobby joggers?

In Europe doesn't matter how You train. If You are fast, You get paid and You are pro. If not, then You aren't pro.

I thought Zola Budd was from South Africa? Or is this a different Budd?

Good catch I was looking at 3k. Point remains that the notion that the US is so far behind seems misplaced. A top US high schooler from this year is in the same range even if they don’t run in time trial 5,000s.

I had a slight change of heart for valbymania when valby won a gutsy race at sec’s, hated seeing her limping like that!

H'm. Pros train differently and take different steps to be "fast". I have commented about it about a million times. Battlocletti is an example.

if she went through the NCAA system, we'd basically have a pro race between her, Tuohy, and Valby. lol

You are correct. But she ran for some years for Britain? In any case, her marks are listed in the European all time best lists and she ran 8:28 and 14:48 at 18 or 19.

It's not that Europe is somehow ahead. The depth and breadth of teenage athletics is much better in the US, I think. It's just that a few at the very top can become quasi-professionals a bit earlier and are thus a bit more likely to achieve very good times/marks at ~18-21.

According to the WA stats, the best US female u20 is Cook with 15:25; she would be 9th on the Euro all time under 20, Efraimson's 4:03 would be 2nd after Budd.

18 is a woman in pretty much every sense.

It’s all fun and games until she toes the line with tuohy, valby and company!!💪🤘

It says 10,000m PB is 33:11.80. Where do you see the 31:55?

DisciplinePerformanceWindPlaceDateRecordsResults Score800 Metres
2:12.76
Rannastaadion, Pärnu (EST)
23 JUL 2022
945
1000 Metres
3:02.27
Saldus sporta kompleksa stadions, Saldus (LAT)
05 JUL 2020
833
1500 Metres
4:18.15
Jāņa Daliņa Stadium, Valmiera (LAT)
03 JUL 2022
1064
One Mile
5:09.65
Tamme staadion, Tartu (EST)
13 JUN 2020
851
3000 Metres
9:12.67
Vingis Park Stadium, Vilnius (LTU)
17 JUL 2022
1063
5000 Metres
15:12.94
Carl-Kaufmann-Stadion, Karlsruhe (GER)
20 MAY 2023
1138
10,000 Metres
33:11.80
Staadion, Valka (LAT)
13 MAY 2023
1077
5 Kilometres
15:23
Riga (LAT)
07 MAY 2023
NR
1119
10 Kilometres
33:10

No. The OP brought her name into it. Well then excuse me for pointing out unpleasant realities. European sports have a very lax attitude on the subject. European cycling fans were not upset that Armstrong doped, just that he doped better than their heroes. They still think Pantani, Indurain, Contador, etc were clean. I enjoy bashing Kenya (it deserves it), but who are we kidding? I see a pro European based distance runner and I can cynically assume the rest of the story. Italy is one of the worst doping offenders in the whole world. Anyone want to argue that Battocletti is clean given her miraculous Olympic year progression and the fact that her coach was busted for doping in 1999? Anyone going to pretend that Koko ran sub-15 in 2017 on pure talent because German sports are so pristine? Or that British distance runners are beyond scrutiny when GB athletics decided to emulate Spain from the 1990s and you have the Team Sky debacle? Or heck that Jakob can beat the East Africans naturally when they are doped to the gills to begin with?

Look pro US distance runners dope. Sometimes blatantly like Houlihan. That is the reality of the sport. But the doping incentive system for US distance runners tends to be put off by the NCAA safe harbor for a few years. With US sprinting where high school/college sprinters can run world class times earlier and Olympic glory is already within reach, the pressures start earlier and you get college doping scandals like Ross. Once a distance runner starts running professionally, the pressure and incentives start. If European distance runners are professionalizing earlier, then the game starts earlier. Just commonsense. Anyway that is just a general comment. Downvote, upvote. Don't care.

31:55 from 2022 isn't in WA, because she ran with men. 33:11 last week was run as threshold workout.

You are really confused and deluded. WA is quarelling with NCAA because the NCAA don't comply with anti-doping measures and you dream up a scenario where NCAA is clean and the Europeans in the professional testing pools get away with things?

And how stupid would the European countries be? Germany has produced *one* Klosterhalfen in half a century, Why don't we get one every couple of years if it's so easy to dope up 20 year olds and get away with it? (or at least another one in France or Spain or Hungary)

Whereas in the US we got suddenly within 3-4 years half a dozen women that easily beat most of the 5000m times ran by US women until a few years ago. And often after being below international level in college but having great breakthroughs at 23-24. Certainly far more credible than developments of European athletes...

10 of 15 top 5k US women's times were run in the last 4 years.

7 of the top 14 US women's 1500m times were run in the last 4 years.

Nothing close to that is visible in Europe. So not only are the European clubs doping up their teens, they are so bad at it, that all they have to show for it is one Muir, one Klosterhalfen and one Batocletti (not really in their league).

This is simply ridiculous.

Yes. We all know. Ncaa basically has no testing. The usa uses that time to dope their athletes to the max. Probably a cooperation between running and football

The NCAA is very international, its not just US runners. But yes, US does have some runners that suddenly show up as talented in their mid 20's.

Yeah. I’m a huge Tuohy fan but Astro is coming off as a very effective troll who intentionally ignores facts.