Thanks RW for the follow up, they are really dragging their heels on this one.
The article is fair and balanced, offering both sides of the story.
Can we quit it with the "both sides" BS? They're taking a side merely by writing the story.
The side being expectations of integrity from the CU AD. Which is probably silly given how desperately they're chasing football relevance with a guy who habitually wears sunglasses indoors. It's certainly questionable to announce that you're investigating a program with that high of a profile and then take so long to announce the findings. The public and the media have a right to expect the other shoe to drop. I don't have any hope or expectation regarding Wetmore's and Burroughs's continued employment at CU, just get on with it already. At least for program's sake, if nothing else, since every rival program can use the investigation and still pending report as negative recruiting tools. The reasonable conclusion is that it's taking this long because there are lawyers involved in squaring away whatever action could result to CYA.
How about this, don’t go to CU if you don’t want a highly competitive environment.
If you go there and don’t like it, leave
Where ever you go, treat your coach as a coach. They are there to make you run faster. Try to get faster but they aren’t there to handle everything in your life. You might get 15 mins of 1-1 time per week.
This guy is a coach that is together with a former athlete of his that is 22 years younger. That's a creep.
A. He's not being charged with fraternization.
B. In the real world, adults are attracted to other adults, usually ones they spend a lot of time with. That's just a fact. It becomes a problem when there is harassment and questionable when there is direct power over the athlete, not a consensual relationship in and of itself, especially after the athlete has graduated.
How about this, don’t go to CU if you don’t want a highly competitive environment.
If you go there and don’t like it, leave
Where ever you go, treat your coach as a coach. They are there to make you run faster. Try to get faster but they aren’t there to handle everything in your life. You might get 15 mins of 1-1 time per week.
here let me rephrase this for you and let me know how it sounds:
"How about this, don't get married to an abuser if you won't want to get abused.
If you do get married and don't like it, leave.
who ever you get married to, treat your husband as your husband. They are there to make you a good wife. Try to become a good wife but they aren't there to handle everything in your life. You might get 15 mins 1-1 time per week."
How about this, don’t go to CU if you don’t want a highly competitive environment.
If you go there and don’t like it, leave
Where ever you go, treat your coach as a coach. They are there to make you run faster. Try to get faster but they aren’t there to handle everything in your life. You might get 15 mins of 1-1 time per week.
this is victim blaiming. there are plenty of successful D1 coaches who have acheived success without being emotionally/physically abusive.
Coaches need to remember that it's not THEIR school. They are there be a leader of young men and women. If they can't handle it, there's the door.
Was Wetmore abusive? Well that's what the investigation is for
But people are going to have bad experiences no matter who the coach is. At the end of the day the athlete needs to be responsible for themselves and their own happiness.
What is the role of a coach? What is the solution here, get the workouts on a piece of paper and have someone tell you how great you are all the time?
But people are going to have bad experiences no matter who the coach is. At the end of the day the athlete needs to be responsible for themselves and their own happiness.
What is the role of a coach? What is the solution here, get the workouts on a piece of paper and have someone tell you how great you are all the time?
the role of a coach is to act appropriate in their role.
The truth is that on college campuses, coaches have some of least oversight for how much power and influence they have.
A professor wouldn't be get away with acting abusive towards their students in a classroom. Even if they did get away with it, the students only have to tolerate that professor for one semester.
For any athlete who wants to make it on their respective team, the coach is in charge of you for your entire time. And what real time oversight is there, especially for a niche sport like running? Almost none.
No one is saying a coach is in charge of their athlete's happiness. But if a coach cannot perform their duties without acting appropriate.--bye. There's the door.
Colleges are for the students. This doesn't mean students get to have anything they want. Far from it. But it does mean you need to act appropriately if you're an authority figure
There are many ways to get your athletes to be "tough" without treating them like dirt
How about this, don’t go to CU if you don’t want a highly competitive environment.
If you go there and don’t like it, leave
Where ever you go, treat your coach as a coach. They are there to make you run faster. Try to get faster but they aren’t there to handle everything in your life. You might get 15 mins of 1-1 time per week.
this is victim blaiming. there are plenty of successful D1 coaches who have acheived success without being emotionally/physically abusive.
Coaches need to remember that it's not THEIR school. They are there be a leader of young men and women. If they can't handle it, there's the door.
Was Wetmore abusive? Well that's what the investigation is for
The term “victim blaming” already presumes the presence of abuse, which you claim is still an open question. But but in the same breath you suggest it is necessarily abuse if any athlete finds the environment too intense.
It’s absurd to suggest that a coach’s job is to create an environment that’s appropriate for everyone. This isn’t a no-cut high school program; it’s one small step from the pro ranks. It’s going to be the wrong place for lots of people, even talented people who like running. Many of them should probably consider D3. There is no program in the country that would be a happy place for every conceivable athlete.
this is victim blaiming. there are plenty of successful D1 coaches who have acheived success without being emotionally/physically abusive.
Coaches need to remember that it's not THEIR school. They are there be a leader of young men and women. If they can't handle it, there's the door.
Was Wetmore abusive? Well that's what the investigation is for
The term “victim blaming” already presumes the presence of abuse, which you claim is still an open question. But but in the same breath you suggest it is necessarily abuse if any athlete finds the environment too intense.
It’s absurd to suggest that a coach’s job is to create an environment that’s appropriate for everyone. This isn’t a no-cut high school program; it’s one small step from the pro ranks. It’s going to be the wrong place for lots of people, even talented people who like running. Many of them should probably consider D3. There is no program in the country that would be a happy place for every conceivable athlete.
your logic doesn't quite play here.
Just because some or many athletes would tolerate or even like an abusive coach (this happens a lot) doesn't mean the coach is not abusive.
Again, no one is saying that they should create a happy place for every conceivable athlete. What they are saying is that a coach's behavior should be sanctioned. In the military, lets' say boot camp, drill sergeants don't just act the way they do bc they feel like it--their behavior is sanctioned. if a coach is acting in a way that isn't sanctioned, then that's not appropriate.
D1 is going to be the wrong place for lots of people...if they're not fast enough. But the athletes shouldn't be leaving or wanting to leave simply because of the behavior of the coach. TThe coach is getting paid to perform their duties in a certain way. And if you think that certain toxic behavior is required to create fast athletes, well that's just not true.
If you are on a team in college you can quit or transfer at literally any time.
I don’t know how much experience you have with DI/P5 athletic departments but there is A TON of oversight.
Athletic Directors, SWA, compliance, Student Athlete Advisory Committee, conference reps, athletic training. The NCAA. Everything is tracked. When you can talk to athletes when you can’t, practice hours, days off, voluntary vs mandatory.
Here is a question, if an athlete wants to get better can you ever discuss changing body composition or nutrition with them or is that 100% off limits?
If it is, would them having a conversation with a licensed professional be acceptable or is that also 100% off limits?
If you are on a team in college you can quit or transfer at literally any time.
I don’t know how much experience you have with DI/P5 athletic departments but there is A TON of oversight.
Athletic Directors, SWA, compliance, Student Athlete Advisory Committee, conference reps, athletic training. The NCAA. Everything is tracked. When you can talk to athletes when you can’t, practice hours, days off, voluntary vs mandatory.
Here is a question, if an athlete wants to get better can you ever discuss changing body composition or nutrition with them or is that 100% off limits?
If it is, would them having a conversation with a licensed professional be acceptable or is that also 100% off limits?
Again, College is there for the students. If students feel a need to transfer due to inappropriate coach behavior, no. If because the student is too slow? Okay. But no, transferring is not some catch all to let coaches off the hook.
I'm talking oversight on a daily basis. If a coach is consistently getting away with saying things to his or her athletes that is no appropriate--and a coach can easily do this by isolating him or herself with their athletes--then that's wrong.
I'm sure there are ways to talk about weight.
If a Coach is publicly humiliating his athletes about being fat, even if that is factually incorrect, that's not appropriate (Wetmore didn't do this but my coach did)
i will say some athletes now don't know how good they have it. They feel empowered to speak up about coach behavior that doesn't touch what used to go on and was swept under the rug due to infectious culture of silence and compliance
this is victim blaiming. there are plenty of successful D1 coaches who have acheived success without being emotionally/physically abusive.
Coaches need to remember that it's not THEIR school. They are there be a leader of young men and women. If they can't handle it, there's the door.
Was Wetmore abusive? Well that's what the investigation is for
The term “victim blaming” already presumes the presence of abuse, which you claim is still an open question. But but in the same breath you suggest it is necessarily abuse if any athlete finds the environment too intense.
It’s absurd to suggest that a coach’s job is to create an environment that’s appropriate for everyone. This isn’t a no-cut high school program; it’s one small step from the pro ranks. It’s going to be the wrong place for lots of people, even talented people who like running. Many of them should probably consider D3. There is no program in the country that would be a happy place for every conceivable athlete.
It darn well should be a happy place for the athletes the coaches have identified to recruit to the program. This isn't a case of moths to a flame, this isn't high school where coaches work with students who are already at the school by happenstance of the location of their families' homes. College head coaches and the recruiters that work under them are the gatekeepers of their programs, even to recruited walk-ons. RWTB and CU's track record of success may have brought a crowd knocking on the door, but it's the coaches who choose which individuals to let through the door. Nobody is on your roster, or trying to be, without your blessing. If you inadvertently recruit a teenaged high schooler who becomes truly unhappy with the truth of your program then that's your mistake and you need to have a plan to correct it to everyone's satisfaction. You disregard it, you hope it will just take care of itself, and this bit of blowback and scandal can result. You can say it's "kids these days" yet you don't see this sort of thing happening at NAU, Stanford, Arkansas, BYU. You have seen it happen at Washington and Oregon and most reasonable minds see that those coaches got their just desserts. A key difference being that those coaches didn't have a popular mystique built around them via a hagiography.
A key difference being that those coaches didn't have a popular mystique built around them via a hagiography.
exactly. the reason many coaches get away with what they do for as long as they do is the mystique they build around themselves which is a direct result of the power they hold over their athletes
A key difference being that those coaches didn't have a popular mystique built around them via a hagiography.
exactly. the reason many coaches get away with what they do for as long as they do is the mystique they build around themselves which is a direct result of the power they hold over their athletes
to the student-athlete, a coach is the most powerful person on campus--the most powerful person in their lives. They will do anything to get in that coach's good graces, and the student athletes who do, the ones who make varsity and race well, will do anything to maintain that status quo. This is how coaches get away with acting like tyrants for decades on end
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