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As clean as Jakob
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Khalid Boulami coaching Ramzi43
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El Guerrouj suffered his first defeat since coming second in the 2000 Sydney Olympics when Rashid Ramzi beat him last Friday. Ramzi, a former training partner of El Guerrouj who now represents Bahrain, pulled out of last night's meeting, as did Ethiopia's world 5,000m and 10,000m record-holder, Kenenisa Bekele, who has an Achilles tendon problem.
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Factually Incorrect 2 wrote:
“Former training partner” - when Ramzi was a nobody who stunk. If anything his transformation after joining Boulami whose brother was banned for EPO maybe gives the idea that Kada was not doping him.
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Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
No way to know for sure, but he does not fit the profile of a doper in my view. He was one of the best juniors in the world, and he steadily improved after running 3:33 at age 19.
To me, the biggest red flags that make me suspect someone is doping are: 1) a big sudden jump in their performance level at an advanced age, such as Mo Farah and Lamont Marcell Jacobs, and 2) someone running better in their mid to late 30’s than they did in their 20’s, such as Eliud Kipchoge and Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce.
What if they were doping as a junior? Remember the Moroccan/Qatari Driouch? (Coached by both Aden and Kada)
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Do the math wrote:
Multiple training partners busted- kaouch, etc- all under same coach (Kada).
Height of epo usage, yet he’s that much better than everyone?
Significantly corrupt iaaf at the time with payoffs, etc
Doping culture in Morocco- just part of high end training.
False. They were not training partners. I still suspect El Guerrouj doped, but no training partners of his were busted (he had only a few).
Kaouch was most certainly a training partner.
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Factually Incorrect wrote:
Hopefully you're not employed by WADA.
The 2012,2014,2016 800m world junior champions (including Nijel Amos) have all been busted. Ramzi was an African junior medalist. Kiprop didn't bother with the juniors, he was winning the World Senior 1500 gold when still a teen.
Wonder why you think El G couldn't have been doping when he was a junior? Didn't he join the Kada group when he was a teen? Do you think these coaches and managers in Africa are happy to dope athletes to death, but take a strict 'no injections for under 20 year olds' moral stand?
Never once did I say that it’s impossible Hicham was doping, whether as a senior or junior. I literally wrote, “impossible to know for sure.” I’m just saying his progression doesn’t have red flags all over it the way that other people’s progressions do.
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Factually Incorrect wrote:
Seriously? Present your case.
According to an old thread on here he used to drive a volvo and had calves that looked like a grapefruit.
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Do the math wrote:
Kaouch was most certainly a training partner.
proof …training together in national camps doesnt count
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trollism wrote:
What is the evidence? wrote:
He never tested positive. The burden is on you to prove he was not clean.
Wasn't the question though.
The question was 'do you believe he was clean?'.
My belief is that of course he wasn't clean, anyone with half a brain knows that. Can I prove it, no. Is there huge circumstancial evidence against him, of course there is.
My belief about it doesn't matter. His records are on the books and he has his medals. Unless there is new evidence forthcoming that will not change.
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He was not clean?
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loki wrote:
I don't know why we even care anymore. It's just sport, it will never be clean and it will never be fair under the current rules and circumstances. It is really just a big joke now to anyone with any brains in their head. Like do you believe the government? Do you think anything involving money and social mobility is going to not involve lying and cheating? When you have nothing you will justify about anything to get something. I just enjoy sport for what it is. The giro d'italia was great today and for 3 weeks I will watch 176 doped athletes ride like the wind. Enjoy every minute of the competition -it is what it is.
Couldn’t agree more.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Do the math wrote:
Kaouch was most certainly a training partner.
proof …training together in national camps doesnt count
What proof do you want? Talk to Hicham. Better yet, go ask his brother in Ksar el Kabir.
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trollism wrote:
What is the evidence? wrote:
He never tested positive. The burden is on you to prove he was not clean.
Wasn't the question though.
The question was 'do you believe he was clean?'.
My belief is that of course he wasn't clean, anyone with half a brain knows that. Can I prove it, no. Is there huge circumstancial evidence against him, of course there is.
Do you want me to start linking threads to all the half brains defending hicham?
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He never failed a test so yes he was clean. Letsrun continues to witch-hunt and cry about suspected dopers instead of putting effort into training
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Clean Sport Advocate wrote:
No way to know for sure, but he does not fit the profile of a doper in my view. He was one of the best juniors in the world, and he steadily improved after running 3:33 at age 19.
To me, the biggest red flags that make me suspect someone is doping are: 1) a big sudden jump in their performance level at an advanced age, such as Mo Farah and Lamont Marcell Jacobs, and 2) someone running better in their mid to late 30’s than they did in their 20’s, such as Eliud Kipchoge and Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce.
Eliud didn’t get better at later age. His 12:52 at 18 is probably still his best performance.
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Do the math wrote:
What is the evidence? wrote:
He never tested positive. The burden is on you to prove he was not clean.
Multiple training partners busted- kaouch, etc- all under same coach (Kada).
Height of epo usage, yet he’s that much better than everyone?
Significantly corrupt iaaf at the time with payoffs, etc
Doping culture in Morocco- just part of high end training.
Kauch etc.
care to name all these many training partners who were caught? I bet you can’t name any others.
El G was clean. He retired because he had nothing left to accomplish. He is the greatest 1500/miler of all time.
im guessing by you’re post that you were too young to see El G in his prime so you just believe he must have been doping to achieve his marks.
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