Things changed. My older daughter ran 5:10 junior year and had dozens of coaches contact her 5 years ago. My younger daughter ran 4:55 two years ago and received almost no responses even though she reached out to almost 100 coaches. She ended up walking on at a mid-major. She is thinking about entering the transfer portal.
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Confused Dad wrote:
He is currently in the top 25 of his event in the United States. I'm shocked how little interest college coaches have shown. He finished last year in the top 75 of his event in the United States. The school he really wants to attend has moved the goal post 3 times on what kind of time he needs to run to even make the team. They are currently telling him a time that would likely rank him in the top 2-3 runners in his event when all is said and done.
Even the local D2 has not bothered to reach out. He has received letters from other D2 and NAIA however.
What am I missing?
You're missing that you think your kid is a lot more special than anyone else does.
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One more thing, if your son is hell bent on going to a top 5-10 program it’s really really hard. You can find the article of Cooper Teare begging Oregon for months before he broke out at the end of his Junior year.
I was a very highly ranked recruit myself (15 years ago but still) the great John Mcdonnell told me on the phone “hey 4 or 5 guys in the world get to join my distance group every year. International, transfer, JC and high school. Do something to make me think you can be in that 5 or don’t waste your time”
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coach of all wrote:
I have been coaching for 10 years and have seen the same thing over the past 2-3 years. I think coaches got lazy after having a year off with pay. I have a guy on my team right now who ran 4:12 as a junior and is not signed yet as a senior. 90% of coaches didn't even respond to him even though he would be one of the top guys on dozens of teams that he contacted. I expect that he will run 4:07 this year. He is leaning toward attending our state school while continuing to contact the coach after arriving. He may end up running on the club team which will be a sad situation. I have two juniors on the team who have run 1:55 this spring and they are starting aining the same process. I have gone through the process with dozens of athletes over the past 10 years but the first 5 years were great while the past 2 have been frustrating.
This is awful if true. Recruiting is the name of the game and coaches are not even responding to a 4:12 athlete? I saw another post that said a 4:55 female is getting little to no interest and find that hard to believe. Any/all college coaches who don't even have the intelligence to at least reply to interest like this should not be coaching anywhere, ever.
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I am friends with someone who ran sub 9 and had no interest from Stanford.
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Confused Dad wrote:
This is a really good point. It's disappointing, because we'd been placing all of our eggs in one basket.
Previous poster asked about grades. He's #2 in his senior class. He will be receiving a small scholarship from our state association.
There is your problem right there.
Apply to other places as well. They have nice baskets too.
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TROOF! wrote:
The kid is a senior and it is now April of his senior year. The colleges are out of money because the coaches have already committed their 2023/2024 funds and roster spots. He will need to walk on somewhere at this point.
Also understand that a lot of scholarship athletes were granted extra eligibility because of COVID. That and a red shirt year means that 2017 and 2018 grads are still active, the university is honoring their scholarship commitments within NCAA limits, and those athletes are working on second undergraduate degrees or have started grad school. Their "COVID Bonus" means that rosters are full and less money is available for kids graduating high school this year.
All class of 2027 admissions decisions have been made. I hope the OP's son has at least been accepted to the school and several others.
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Sounds like he's a solid academic student, so I'm sorry he didn't try Ivy. They don't have athletic scholarships but they have outstanding aid based on family income.
Otherwise, my serious advice would be to consider taking a gap year. Once the Covid bonus has worked itself out, there should be more opportunities.
PS--But I will agree with a previous poster: If the lad is top-25 in an "off" distance, it's not going to carry as much weight as top-25 in, say, the 800 or 1600.
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Yes it is a confusing time and a few random thoughts:
Transfer Portal: seems like you can literally start a season at one school and finish at a different one under the right circumstances. Maybe some coaches waiting for the dominoes to fall and keep a spot open until the last moment.
Extra eligibility due to COVID I think has a profound impact right now and will take a couple of seasons to filter out of the system.
Graduate Transfers: Personally I have always like this rule because under normal circumstances it is the only eligibility rule that rewards a good student.
Influx of proven foreign athletes, especially from the British Commonwealth it seems like of late.
"Artificial Times"- Athletes not being able to replicate times from big invitational meets like Arcadia. For example if a kid can run 8:55 in a big invitational meet, but can't break 9:10 anywhere else including their state meet. College conference, regional, and national championships don't typically run like these set up races and coaches are looking for racers. I've heard at least one power 5 coach express this.
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sheltered wrote:
Yes it is a confusing time and a few random thoughts:
Transfer Portal: seems like you can literally start a season at one school and finish at a different one under the right circumstances. Maybe some coaches waiting for the dominoes to fall and keep a spot open until the last moment.
Extra eligibility due to COVID I think has a profound impact right now and will take a couple of seasons to filter out of the system.
Graduate Transfers: Personally I have always like this rule because under normal circumstances it is the only eligibility rule that rewards a good student.
Influx of proven foreign athletes, especially from the British Commonwealth it seems like of late.
"Artificial Times"- Athletes not being able to replicate times from big invitational meets like Arcadia. For example if a kid can run 8:55 in a big invitational meet, but can't break 9:10 anywhere else including their state meet. College conference, regional, and national championships don't typically run like these set up races and coaches are looking for racers. I've heard at least one power 5 coach express this.
I was curious what coaches thought of this. I've noticed some local athletes with really fast times at events like this but they can't replicate it elsewhere. Still fast but their PR isn't close to typical of their average performance. I'd think consistency in performance would be something important.
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sheltered wrote:
Yes it is a confusing time and a few random thoughts:
Transfer Portal: seems like you can literally start a season at one school and finish at a different one under the right circumstances. Maybe some coaches waiting for the dominoes to fall and keep a spot open until the last moment.
Extra eligibility due to COVID I think has a profound impact right now and will take a couple of seasons to filter out of the system.
Graduate Transfers: Personally I have always like this rule because under normal circumstances it is the only eligibility rule that rewards a good student.
Influx of proven foreign athletes, especially from the British Commonwealth it seems like of late.
"Artificial Times"- Athletes not being able to replicate times from big invitational meets like Arcadia. For example if a kid can run 8:55 in a big invitational meet, but can't break 9:10 anywhere else including their state meet. College conference, regional, and national championships don't typically run like these set up races and coaches are looking for racers. I've heard at least one power 5 coach express this.
I will also add that this is an unintended consequence of...
Super Shoes - is today's 4:10 boy or 5:00 girl actually a 4:25 / 5:15 athlete without these wonder kicks? At the 3200 distance, 75% of the kids are lacing up road flats like the Vaporfly Next % and that has artificially skewed times. It's even more warped in places like California where XC is run on hard packed dirt roads and nearly every athlete is wearing a plated road shoe.
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I know a kid in a similar position. I myself actually did walk on at a program that is consistently top5 in xc. And one of my friends is an assistant at another top 10 xc program. In talking with people I know about the way recruiting has evolved, two things stick out.
Increased focus on transfer portal
One of the macro things that is tough w/r/t recruiting is how easy it is to recruit through the transfer portal. this completely changes the dynamics of recruiting. coaches who get paid based on scoring position at big meets (e.g., conference, nationals) are going to have a stronger incentive to look there than at high school kids that are largely undeveloped.
Increased focus on athlete-specificity
The economics of recruiting at different schools is also worth calling out here. A friend is a coach at a school that was top 10 in xc and has a severely limited number of scholarships across xc and track to work with. So, to be competitive in xc, many schools are getting laser-focused on specific athlete profiles. For example, 9:00-9:10 kids who are also competitive at post-season XC meets (who can handle >60-70mpw straightaway and be developed into a top 40-60 finisher at NCAA xc) will be preferred over 1:55, 4:10 kids (who are on 30-40 mpw, will have a harder time adjusting, and could score at conference in track but would otherwise be taking a spot away from a potential xc scorer).271 -
TROOF! wrote:
I will also add that this is an unintended consequence of...
Super Shoes - is today's 4:10 boy or 5:00 girl actually a 4:25 / 5:15 athlete without these wonder kicks?
At
No, the new super shoes don't reduce mile times by 15 seconds. That's completely rediculous. Even you don't actually believe that. Stop with the nonsense.
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Also, what is his race ? Not the running kind…
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Take a look at the rosters for the schools your kid is interested in. It could very well be that the school is already set for your kid's event and would only take on a freshman if they were able to run as fast or faster than the athletes that are already on the team. That is probably why the times coaches are throwing at you seem out of line. Remember that recruiting is not an objective exercise where a kid who runs X:XX is automatically going to get recruited by schools A, B, & C. Men's teams have very limited scholarship funds for distance runners and will always prioritize funds for sprinters. If a school is set for distance runners, they are not going to bother adding on unless the athlete is someone they just can't pass up.
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What's the event and his time? This is a simple question. Did he post some a top 25 time in the 600 (which is barely run)?
Is he a minority and or gay? Have you considered getting in touch with your distant Argentinian Hispanic heritage(or some other impactful race you can claim?) Getting into college in 2023 as an upper class white male takes some persistence and creativity outside good grades and sports.
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Think Again wrote:
TROOF! wrote:
I will also add that this is an unintended consequence of...
Super Shoes - is today's 4:10 boy or 5:00 girl actually a 4:25 / 5:15 athlete without these wonder kicks?
At
No, the new super shoes don't reduce mile times by 15 seconds. That's completely rediculous. Even you don't actually believe that. Stop with the nonsense.
Indeed.
But another piece of nonsense is the NCAA not enforcing which came in in Dec 2021. After all, if any college wunderkind turn pro, they'll need to get used to racing without 40mm of pbax underfoot.That, and proper dope testing to find the burrito lovers.
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The combination of the immediate transfer rules and NIL has essentially turned the mid-majors into a farm system for the big D1 programs. They can get (or buy) proven athletes who will score right away as opposed to taking a chance on a Freshman who needs development and might have been over-trained. Very, very few freshman are going to be recruited by the big programs going forward.
Look for a good mid major program (somewhere like Miami of Ohio) or a top D3, he can transfer if he runs great times and wants to be at Washington/Oregon/Carolina etc.
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1- mid and distance recruiting has moved way earlier -going into summer after junior year many top programs are done
2- Portal has really changed game
3- Covid still has some 5th/6th year left overs
4- Cant do anything now but - "waiting" for coaches to call is not at all a good strategy, son should have been reaching out to many coaches/schools and showing interest early junior year then narrowing down based on his and their interest mesh.
5 - That being said - start emailing like crazy now and ask for a call - as earlier poster said times , grades and makes sure he knows what to say so coach isn't spinning his wheels
6- while the portal is not your friend now - it could become a plus if he performs in college
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Either your son's coach is not responding to college emails or your son is not responding to his Instagram messages. (have him check his message requests). Those are the two main ways recruiters are reaching out these days.
Or you have been trying to do all the communicating for him. That's a red flag and no coach wants to entertain any recruiting if the parent(s) is wanting to do the gate keeping.
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