Who is the best runner in NCAA history to never have won an individual title?

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3 years ago 03/12/2023 8:39am EDT

re: usnspecialist

usnspecialist wrote:
If we freeze everyone at the end of their NCAA career and ignore anything after (which you are seemingly implying with your answer of gregory), then Chris Derrick has a pretty good case for it. Something like 15 all American performances and multiple marks near the top of respective NCAA all time lists at the time he ran them, but could never get over that hump.
Obviously didn't have the pro career he wanted or many expected, but few were more consistent at the NCAA level.

Another vouching for Chris Derrick.

Collegiate bests of 3:41 1500, 3:59 mile, 7:46 3k, 13:19 5k, 27:31 10k. Of course, more impressive coming well before the super shoe era. 3k/5k/10k were among the fastest ever times among collegians.

NCAA XC History

2008 - 7th

2009 - 3rd

2010 - 5th

2011 - 2nd

NCAA Indoor Track History

2009 - 4th in 5k, 5th in 3k

2010 - did not compete

2011 - 8th in 5k

2012 - 2nd in 5k, 2nd in 3k

NCAA Outdoor Track History

2009 - 3rd in 5k

2010 - 4th in 5k

2011 - 4th in 10k, 4th in 5k

2012 - 3rd in 10k

14 All-American awards out of 14 tries. Only one season where he didn’t qualify. 8th was the worst he ever placed in an NCAA race. Had to deal with the likes of Galen Rupp and Sam Chelanga early in his career and then Lawi Lalang and Cam Levins late in his career. He’s got everything but the titles: lots of All-Americans, consistency, and fast times.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 9:29am EDT

re: Just Another Hobby Jogger

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
Gator Bait wrote:
Wasn't she naia, then only 1 yr at CU?
How 'bout Derrick, Puskedra, Webb, maybe Klecker. Cranny?
Derrick was 14 times All American, and runner up to Lawi Lalang three times. (Once in XC and twice Indoor.)

Derrick is the correct answer.

Lauren is the female Derrick.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 10:10am EDT

re: alwaysrunnerup

This is a subtly bifold question: "The greatest runner in NCAA history" is the tricky qualifying phrase (i.e. who had the best NCAA career with no titles v. the greatest runner ever to participate in the NCAA with no titles)

The first is Derrick (who must have a dartboard with Lawi's image) whereas the second is Viren.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 10:49am EDT

re: XY

Probably Lasse Viren. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention Alan Webb, but he has to be up there even if he was pretty inconsistent.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 10:50am EDT

re: Hsoed

Hsoed wrote:
Ex L wrote:
Peter Rono would the Olympic 1500 in 1988, then finished 2nd at NCAA in 1989.
This question is potentially complicated. Peter Rono won a few NCAA Division II titles and of course he wasn’t really competing in NCAA Division I for most of his races, if I recall correctly.
So there are some great runners who did not win NCAA titles, but Peter Rono is not one of them.

I realize Rono’s school didn’t compete in D1 until his last year, but he did run in a D1 final after his Olympic Gold and lost (to his teammate).

Bile won the NCAA 1500 in 1987. Rono was not going to win that race.
Falcon won in 1988 but was flat at the Trials that year. Maybe Rono would have won that race but Falcon was pretty good that year. He fell in the 1989 NCAA 1500 where Kip Cheruyiot beat Rono.

Yes, Rono was an NCAA Division 2 champion, but we’re talking D1 here, right?

Fact is, Peter Rono was an Olympic Gold medalist that ran in an NCAA division 1 championship and did not win there.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 10:54am EDT

re: alwaysrunnerup

3 years ago 03/12/2023 11:05am EDT

re: alwaysrunnerup

3 years ago 03/12/2023 11:20am EDT

re: .1964.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 11:21am EDT

re: .1964.

I interpreted the question as: among athletes who competed seriously at DI XC/T&F and never won an individual title, who had the best subsequent professional career?

so far Molly Huddle seems like the best answer. Way better career than Chris Derrick’s

3 years ago 03/12/2023 11:30am EDT

re: ScottEvil

ScottEvil wrote:
I interpreted the question as: among athletes who competed seriously at DI XC/T&F and never won an individual title, who had the best subsequent professional career?
so far Molly Huddle seems like the best answer. Way better career than Chris Derrick’s

Viren’s multiple Olympic Gold medals would disagree with you (interpreted that way)

3 years ago 03/12/2023 11:35am EDT

re: ScottEvil

Former 1500/ mile world record holder and Olympic medalist Filbert Bayi.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 2:00pm EDT

re: XY

XY wrote:
This is a subtly bifold question: "The greatest runner in NCAA history" is the tricky qualifying phrase (i.e. who had the best NCAA career with no titles v. the greatest runner ever to participate in the NCAA with no titles)
The first is Derrick (who must have a dartboard with Lawi's image) whereas the second is Viren.

If you read what OP actually wrote, it is obviously the former.

So who has the best NCAA resume (not necessarily what they’ve done post-college) without a title?

3 years ago 03/12/2023 2:01pm EDT

re: Gator Bait

Best NCAA career without a title is probably Derrick.

XC - not just AA x4, but top ten x4 (7th, 3rd, 5th, 2nd). Can't really overstate how difficult this is.

10,000 - American collegiate record (27:31), AA x2 (3rd, 4th)

5000 - 13:19 indoor, American Jr record outdoor (13:29), AA x3 in (2nd, 4th, 8th), AA x2 out (3rd, 4th, 4th)

3000 - 7:46 indoor, American Jr record (7:56), AA x2 (2nd, 5th)

3 years ago 03/12/2023 2:52pm EDT

re: kartelite

I saw several folks mention Viren and thought to my self "what are they talking about, he never ran for a US university". So I looked it up. He ran 1 season of XC for BYU, not sure of the year (1969?).

Lasse Viren is definitely the correct answer.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 4:06pm EDT

re: alwaysrunnerup

3 years ago 03/12/2023 4:09pm EDT

re: Zat0pek

Paul Chelimo should probably get a mention

3 years ago 03/12/2023 4:11pm EDT

re: Hsoed

Hsoed wrote:
The title asked for the best, not the fastest. Only on LetsRun is Joe Klecker considered better than Lasse Viren.

Does Lasse Viren really count? According to Wikipedia, he only ran at BYU for one season of XC… technically he ran in the NCAA but if that’s accurate, he’s not relevant to this discussion.

“Virén began his running career in the United States at Brigham Young University, in Provo, Utah. Virén ran on the Varsity Cross-Country team for BYU for one season, before returning home to his native Finland.”

This post was edited 16 seconds after it was posted.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 4:58pm EDT

re: Retweet Derrick

Retweet Derrick wrote:
usnspecialist wrote:
If we freeze everyone at the end of their NCAA career and ignore anything after (which you are seemingly implying with your answer of gregory), then Chris Derrick has a pretty good case for it. Something like 15 all American performances and multiple marks near the top of respective NCAA all time lists at the time he ran them, but could never get over that hump.
Obviously didn't have the pro career he wanted or many expected, but few were more consistent at the NCAA level.
Another vouching for Chris Derrick.
Collegiate bests of 3:41 1500, 3:59 mile, 7:46 3k, 13:19 5k, 27:31 10k. Of course, more impressive coming well before the super shoe era. 3k/5k/10k were among the fastest ever times among collegians.
NCAA XC History
2008 - 7th
2009 - 3rd
2010 - 5th
2011 - 2nd
NCAA Indoor Track History
2009 - 4th in 5k, 5th in 3k
2010 - did not compete
2011 - 8th in 5k
2012 - 2nd in 5k, 2nd in 3k
NCAA Outdoor Track History
2009 - 3rd in 5k
2010 - 4th in 5k
2011 - 4th in 10k, 4th in 5k
2012 - 3rd in 10k
14 All-American awards out of 14 tries. Only one season where he didn’t qualify. 8th was the worst he ever placed in an NCAA race. Had to deal with the likes of Galen Rupp and Sam Chelanga early in his career and then Lawi Lalang and Cam Levins late in his career. He’s got everything but the titles: lots of All-Americans, consistency, and fast times.

Hard to argue with this. Agreed Derrick is the answer.

This one is the closest he got. If he had held Lalang off with 300 to go I think he would have taken it.

YouTube.com

2012 NCAA Indoor Track Men's 3,000m

Chris Raulli

Watch on YouTube

What a stacked race - Lalang, Derrick, Cam Levins, Chelimo, Ryan Hill, Lenny Korir, among others.

3 years ago 03/12/2023 6:02pm EDT

re: Alexi Santana

This thread really makes one appreciate how badly Schumacher screwed up Chris Derrick.

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