The problem with all these guys is that they almost always turn out to be cheaters. Eddy H, Kevin Castille, etc..
The rest, SoCalCush, Pete Magill, etc...age... and slow down.
ain't that the f-in truth. in the last 15 years, easy paces have become tempo paces; tempo paces have become race pace, and what used to be my 200-400m kick at the end of races has become my all-out fresh efforts. that said, i don't think this dude's results or training absolutely screams drugs, certainly not in the ways that other cheaters' results did. but i'm not sure it merits a WSJ article either (there were a few higher age grade %s at the atlanta 5k i did today, as there are at most masters national events). they'd be better served writing an article on the exploits of betty lindberg or michelle rohl or a few others...
that's my story and i'm sticking to it,
cush
Cush, that's true, but how many of those better age grades you're referring to happened in marathons run back-to-back? Running a >90% age grade at the US masters 5K champs in Atlanta, which competitive age groupers like yourself specifically train and peak for is one thing. Running >90% age grades in major marathons a weekend or two apart is quite another. Like another poster mentioned, it's his recovery (or lack thereof) that is the tell.
Here's his athlinks. Solid times. Lots of 1:10-1:13ish half marathons & 2:30ish fulls over the past 5-6 years. His 10k's are about same as his HM pace.
This guy is easily sub 2:20 in his prime. This is what happens when you have talent and don’t get into the sport until later in life. His body is not as beat up as the rest of us who started doing this at a high level in HS/college. It also helps that he’s a marathoner. Nobody respects the 5K even though it’s a very tough event if you’re racing it.
I didn't read the article because of the paywall. But I've followed Rideout on Strava for a while. His training methods are not a secret. He runs 80 miles per week year round. He does traditional interval and tempo workouts regularly. He races often.
If there's any "secret," it's how he sustains that volume and intensity, while carrying that muscle mass and without ever taking a day off, at age 50+.
Easy to guess. The previous poster nailed it, or should I say needled it?
I didn't read the article because of the paywall. But I've followed Rideout on Strava for a while. His training methods are not a secret. He runs 80 miles per week year round. He does traditional interval and tempo workouts regularly. He races often.
If there's any "secret," it's how he sustains that volume and intensity, while carrying that muscle mass and without ever taking a day off, at age 50+.
Genetics in terms of staying healthy is another underrated talent, not just the ability to run fast.
80 mpw for most hobbyjoggers is considered too much...! But I think if you are patient you can build up to at least 50-60 and hold it there (while still holding down a life, a job and a family).
I didn't read the article because of the paywall. But I've followed Rideout on Strava for a while. His training methods are not a secret. He runs 80 miles per week year round. He does traditional interval and tempo workouts regularly. He races often.
If there's any "secret," it's how he sustains that volume and intensity, while carrying that muscle mass and without ever taking a day off, at age 50+.
It's not the workouts that are the tell, it's the recovery, or lack of it. Running 80 mpw and doing interval and tempo workouts are well-known and effective ways to race faster times. The mystery that no one has solved is how to retain muscle mass and continue that kind of training density past age ~50 without pharmaceutical assistance.
There do seem to be some individuals with beneficial mutations that allow them to retain muscle mass as they age. But “I’m the biggest alpha male on the starting line” is not inspiring a lot of confidence that this is another case like that. I'd love to be wrong about this, but trying to just run more and harder in your 50s is not a realistic model to follow.
While you aren't wrong at all, colder, there are exceptions and some people are just naturally good as they age and get experience.
In Columbus there are GenX men and women running 2:40-3:15 marathons and getting faster each year (in Fleet Feet and also Rogue Racers). I think it can be done with patience and time. One guy I know mirrored HRE's story--he was a 4:14-4:30 marathoner 15 years ago in 2007 and now runs 2:4x low...(HRE has said he went from 4:10 to 2:35).
One woman in Cbus I know runs a solid 3:08 but has been running 20 years and has 30 marathons under her belt so far.
The problem with all these guys is that they almost always turn out to be cheaters. Eddy H, Kevin Castille, etc..
The rest, SoCalCush, Pete Magill, etc...age... and slow down.
ain't that the f-in truth. in the last 15 years, easy paces have become tempo paces; tempo paces have become race pace, and what used to be my 200-400m kick at the end of races has become my all-out fresh efforts. that said, i don't think this dude's results or training absolutely screams drugs, certainly not in the ways that other cheaters' results did. but i'm not sure it merits a WSJ article either (there were a few higher age grade %s at the atlanta 5k i did today, as there are at most masters national events). they'd be better served writing an article on the exploits of betty lindberg or michelle rohl or a few others...
that's my story and i'm sticking to it,
cush
The social media comparison trap has also caused some of the speed-ups you mentioned. Everyone wants to grind and KOM every day without being patient and just enjoying the process!
It's not the workouts that are the tell, it's the recovery, or lack of it. Running 80 mpw and doing interval and tempo workouts are well-known and effective ways to race faster times. The mystery that no one has solved is how to retain muscle mass and continue that kind of training density past age ~50 without pharmaceutical assistance.
There do seem to be some individuals with beneficial mutations that allow them to retain muscle mass as they age. But “I’m the biggest alpha male on the starting line” is not inspiring a lot of confidence that this is another case like that. I'd love to be wrong about this, but trying to just run more and harder in your 50s is not a realistic model to follow.
While you aren't wrong at all, colder, there are exceptions and some people are just naturally good as they age and get experience.
In Columbus there are GenX men and women running 2:40-3:15 marathons and getting faster each year (in Fleet Feet and also Rogue Racers). I think it can be done with patience and time. One guy I know mirrored HRE's story--he was a 4:14-4:30 marathoner 15 years ago in 2007 and now runs 2:4x low...(HRE has said he went from 4:10 to 2:35).
One woman in Cbus I know runs a solid 3:08 but has been running 20 years and has 30 marathons under her belt so far.
A 50+ year old man doesn’t run 6:40 pace for 10 miles as a “taper” unless he’s on drugs. Sorry to burst your bubble.
juicing aside, dude won his age group at a major, no?
Juicing is never aside, actually it's the key part of it. All the rest is marketing and BS for the naive nation.
OK, I'll bite. What percentage of people, if juiced to the f'n gills could win their age group in a world marathon major? I'm guessing it's just not that high.
Juicing is never aside, actually it's the key part of it. All the rest is marketing and BS for the naive nation.
OK, I'll bite. What percentage of people, if juiced to the f'n gills could win their age group in a world marathon major? I'm guessing it's just not that high.
There's zero chance it happens in his case without TRT and possibly other PEDs, so I don't see the point to your question. He's not doing that training volume and intensity without it.
I’m a late 50s national caliber masters runner. Former high level collegiate athlete that wrecked my body at a younger age and if I could do 80 mpw now at this age, it would be a bloody miracle. So the volume and intensity this dude is able to pull off explains some of it. But at this age very hard to sustain that honestly. Many of us over 50 high level masters runners are oft injured and whenever you bump up in volume or intensity; something bad happens. Pretty much a truism. Given his “alpha male” persona, of which I’ve seen before in the old guy crowd, and the “gotta do it at all costs” mentality, it’s all suspect to me. Something is amiss, but a click bait WSJ article certainly isn’t smart enough to ask the right questions.
OK, I'll bite. What percentage of people, if juiced to the f'n gills could win their age group in a world marathon major? I'm guessing it's just not that high.
There's zero chance it happens in his case without TRT and possibly other PEDs, so I don't see the point to your question. He's not doing that training volume and intensity without it.
I mean, I guess you can be suspicious all you want, but the dude ran the races, could have been tested and wasn't, ergo he won :)
This guy is everything that's wrong with social media...
StillCompeting is correct, he ran the races and won, but avoids drug testing. I'm sure Ken knows about this thread, and it would be easy for him to refute any suspicion. But he won't...he also won't run any usatf national championship races where there is drug testing. I'd bet my retirement this guy is getting help.
There’s a well known cadre of over 50 top masters runners that go to all the usatf national champs. It’s a well known group that show up at the big races. This guy ain’t one of them. Never heard of him before the self promoting article and this thread. “Running the times” don’t mean squat if it ain’t clean. Show up at the normal places where the top Masters show up, and by doing that risk a drug test.
There's zero chance it happens in his case without TRT and possibly other PEDs, so I don't see the point to your question. He's not doing that training volume and intensity without it.
I mean, I guess you can be suspicious all you want, but the dude ran the races, could have been tested and wasn't, ergo he won :)
People like you are the worst enemies of the honest athletes who work hard. Whatever it takes, right?
While you aren't wrong at all, colder, there are exceptions and some people are just naturally good as they age and get experience.
In Columbus there are GenX men and women running 2:40-3:15 marathons and getting faster each year (in Fleet Feet and also Rogue Racers). I think it can be done with patience and time. One guy I know mirrored HRE's story--he was a 4:14-4:30 marathoner 15 years ago in 2007 and now runs 2:4x low...(HRE has said he went from 4:10 to 2:35).
One woman in Cbus I know runs a solid 3:08 but has been running 20 years and has 30 marathons under her belt so far.
It's possible to consistently increase fitness for quite a long time - if you start at a low level of fitness, which isn't the case here (sub-3 marathon already in 2010). Working away patiently certainly works - but nothing suggests that KR's training has been patient. And that patient whittling away at PRs comes to a screeching halt before you turn 50 if you're racing with any regularity. He's got race results for every year since 2010.
Between 2010 and 2017, his progression looks pretty normal, actually. If you start taking fitness and racing seriously, you can drop your HM time from the high 1:27 to 1:23 to 1:21 and even down to 1:17. I've done it, it's a blast. Then KR's times plateau until 2017. Again, that makes sense for someone who's probably training consistently but getting a year older each year.
And then in the space of 3 months, he drops down to running 1:13s. Now, Vaporflies are good, but they're not that good. But let's grant him a Vaporfly bump in 2017 as an outstanding supershoe responder.
But even after that, even as he's getting older, KR's HM times don't slow. He drops to 1:12 in 2019, then all the way to 1:10 in 2021. His marathon progression stays at the same sub-2:30 level all the way through last fall. Even assuming his big jump in 2017 is from supershoes, where do you go to get another big jump in fitness as you're approaching age 50? Once he hits 50, he also jumps to 3 marathons per year.
Look, this isn't how the biology of aging works. It isn't how training works. I hate casting suspicion on anyone. If he was doing this from 28 to 41, I'd accept it no questions asked. I would love to find a way to keep my progression going another 5 years. But try spending some time in a 50-year old body, and you might understand why I have a hard time taking KR's progression at face value. Maybe he just got extremely lucky when it comes to genetics, but that doesn't seem like the most likely explanation.
I mean, I guess you can be suspicious all you want, but the dude ran the races, could have been tested and wasn't, ergo he won :)
People like you are the worst enemies of the honest athletes who work hard. Whatever it takes, right?
Last I checked, everybody who runs Boston is subject to testing. If they didn't bother to test him last year after he won his age group, not his problem.
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