the 5 greatest mile runners of all time

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Okay, now what?

The only man to repeat as Olympic 1500 champion in 125 years who also set 2 mile WRs, bringing it from 3:49.4 to 3:47.3 (with Ovett’s help), as well as WRs at 1500, 1K & 800, is a LOCK for a top-5 spot.

1. Hicham El Guerrouj

2. Sebastian Coe

3. Noureddine Morceli

Top 3 are non-negotiable. After that it may be worth reducing the requirements (Olympic gold and world record) to avoid disqualifying athletes such as Cram, Ngeny, Kiprop, etc.

Shouldn't Kiprop's positive drug test disqualify him?

I tried cobbling together a preliminary top-30 (since the 1948 London Olympics only).

1. Hicham El Guerrouj
2. Noureddine Morceli
3. Sebastian Coe
4. Steve Cram
5. John Walker
6. Kip Keino
7. Bernard Lagat
8. Steve Ovett
9. Herb Elliott
10. Peter Snell
11. Said Aouita
12. Timothy Cheruiyot
13. Jakob Ingrebrigtsen
14. Noah Ngeny
15. Jim Ryun
16. Fermín Cacho
17. Taoufik Makhloufi
18. Filbert Bayi
19. Roger Bannister
20. Abdi Bile
21. Silas Kiplagat
22. Steve Scott
23. Nick Willis
24. Matt Centrowitz Jr.
25. Abdelaati Iguider
26. Michel Jazy
27. Mehdi Baala
28. Venuste Niyongabo
29. John Landy
30. Daniel Komen

Current athletes on watch:
Jake Wightman
Mohamed Katir
Josh Kerr

Keino is way too high on that list as a miler. Take away one amazing performance at altitude and his accomplishments in the 1500/mile don't compare to others you rank well below him. Unless you are also including accomplishments/records at longer distances (3k, 5k, steeple).

Could you bring the formula used to get this classification?
Said Aouita 2 times IAAF athlete of the year, 4 times Global winner of IAAF meetings, raised under extremely bad conditions. That's nothing for you.

Instead you choose the "coved" Brit runners?

Any formula used should take in account the conditions under which the runners evolved.

Aouita

Keino

Kiprop

for are freak middle distance runners not fabrication of conditions.

Aouita would rank higher as a middle distance athlete (800-5000) than on a 1500/mile specific list. He owns zero Olympic 1500 medals and only one 1500 bronze at World Championships.

Kiprop is not included because he was sanctioned for doping. I adhered to a simple rule that doping violations disqualify a runner, while suspicions, however valid, should have no effect.

Not true at all. In addition to his ‘68 gold he won 1500 silver in ‘72 - that gold/silver Olympic combo is bettered only by Coe and equaled only by El Guerrouj, Cacho and Makhloufi. Unlike Coe, Cacho or Makhloufi he also competed in a 3rd Olympic final (1964, 10th)—so regardless of Ryun’s misfortunes, Keino beat him in 3 straight Olympic 1500 competitions.

He won Commonwealth Games golds in the mile/1500 in ‘66/‘67 when that event had more prestige. Of course, there were no World Championships until 1983.

He was ranked top-2 in the world for 8 straight seasons from ‘65 to ‘72, including #1 in ‘68 & ‘70. Here’s a comparison of his top-10 world rankings vs. Jim Ryun’s:

1965 Keino 2 Ryun 4

1966 Keino 2 Ryun 1

1967 Keino 2 Ryun 1

1968 Keino 1 Ryun 2

1969 Keino 2 Ryun 7

1970 Keino 1 Ryun NR

1971 Keino 2 Ryun 6

1972 Keino 2 Ryun 9

His 3:34.91 in the Mexico City final at the time made him the 2nd fastest man in history, and he did it at over 7,000 feet. Since 1896, his winning margin of 2.98 seconds is the largest in the history of the modern Olympic Games.

I have Nelson's book from 1984, 'The Milers' which is a great source of info and stats, and I tend to agree with his criteria that you have listed above. For no. 2. I would put Olympic medals as most important, as they are held every 4 years and have been a constant level playing field (with the exception of the World Wars) for all athletes from different eras. I think recognition then goes to other medals available, including the World Cup, which was seen at the time as the precursor to the World Champs.

I would also add 'longevity' and 'impact' as maybe the 4th criteria. Any athlete's accomplishments also have to be seen in the context of the era and the opponents that they faced. For example, the likes of Coe, Ovett and Cram not only had the disadvantage of competing for hardware against each other, but also against the likes of Walker, Aouita and others. Someone like Herb Elliott had fewer 'great' adversaries to run against.

My list would be (looking at athletes since WW2):

1. Coe

2. El G

3. Morceli

4. Elliott

5. Ovett

6. Cram

7. Snell

8. Walker

9. Lagat

10. Ryun

11. Bayi

12. Keino

I think there is a rasonable claim for the order of the top 4 to change, but I have put Coe first based on him meeting a high standard in all 4 criteria.

1) Broke both the 1500m and 1 mile worlds records. The only man since WW2 to break the mile WR 3 times, lowering it from 3:49.4 to 3:47.33. The only other athlete in the top 12 who can match 4 WRs is Ovett. (2 at 1500 and 2 over 1 mile).

2) The only man to win 2 Olympic titles over 1500m. In addition a World Cup and European silvers.

3) Although he didn't run the distance (1500 or 1 mile) as often as he ran the 800m, Coe was actually unbeaten over either 1500 or a mile from 1977 to 1983, which certainly gave him an aura of invincibilty amongst most of his peers.

4) Amongst the top 3 or 4 over the distance from 1979 (world records) to 1989 (World Cup silver)

If you focus on number of fast performances then obviously EL G would be at the top of the list then Morceli. They also won more championship golds, but had the advantage of competing in an era where there were a lot more opportunities to acquire medals, with World Champs held every 2 years.

Track and distance running in the US competes against football, basketball, baseball, futball, video games

Fair point about Keino's Silver in 1972 and I do think his performance in MC was one of the greastest of all time at the distance. Still, 6th seems too high for a guy with no WRs and ranked #1 only twice. Ovett set 5 WRs and was ranked #1 3x in a more competitive era in which he had to compete with Coe for top billing.

Also, don't see Scott ahead of Willis or Centro with only a WC Silver. I don't think national records should count for much in this ranking.

One more point, I know your ranking is post-1948 but I think Hagg and Andersson deserve some recognition for moving the record from 4:06 to 4:01 through multiple record breaking performances. Psychologically, it must have been easier for Bannister, Landy and others to know they only needed to run just over a second faster rather than 6 seconds faster.

Despite my quibbles I think your list is very good overall and the top 5 are spot on.

He, like most non-African athletes of the era, were also amateurs who effectively had to retire in their mid-twenties. Elliott effectively retired at age 22. Nobody has ever been as dominant as him. And his Olympic final WR was way ahead of its time. If you're going to take into consideration that the likes of Coe did not have so many World Championships to compete in, you should take into account that most of the great milers before the 1970's had 1/3 the length of careers as the later athletes.

But I agree with your list pretty much (if we ignore obvious doping). However much I love Ovett, there is obviously an argument to place Cram ahead of him, given that he did run faster despite pretty much being in the same era, and did beat him in Helsinki 83.

#1 only twice ?? Please list the runners who have ranked #1 more often.

Aouita trained at a prestigeous French sporting academy before he moved to Italy. Keino was a full time athlete able to compete into his mid-thirties when most of his rivals including Ryun effectively had to retire by 24 or 25. Not sure what you mean about Kiprop, a convicted doper.

If athletics had been professional in the 1960's, Kenio would have faced Herb Elliott and Peter Snell as well as Ryin in the 1968 final.

*Ryun. Kenyans and Ethiopians have always had their system of giving athletic talents fake jobs such as policemen or soldiers, to allow them to train full-time as professionals.

And triple Big Mac Super Size meals.