Super shoes have made a mockery of our sport. Sad.
Addendum: the combination of super shoes and bouncy banked tracks have made a mockery of our sport. Might as well have these runners race with jetpacks. Times today are meaningless.
Super shoes have made a mockery of our sport. Sad.
Addendum: the combination of super shoes and bouncy banked tracks have made a mockery of our sport. Might as well have these runners race with jetpacks. Times today are meaningless.
They bouncy tracks existed 10 years ago. The only variable that has changed is the footwear. Not sure why this is so hard for people to comprehend
A good friend of mine was there; he texted me after the first 30 guys or so had broken four minutes... he was losing his mind.
It is a bad time to be one of the "the shoes are just hype" people. And for people who say it is only because of that blazing-fast track, well yes, that's part of it too but not all of it (because Tuohy, Monson, and Nuguse ran pretty dang fast on the Armory track as well). Also, the people who say the double thresholds have "been around forever and don't represent a shift in training," well, you are wrong as well. People are getting better coaching these days.
It all matters. Better shoes, better tracks, better training and likely starting "real training" at a younger age (and not just doing 20-25 miles a week in HS). It is an exciting era to be a track athlete.
Agree with this post a ton.
We are seeing a big breakthrough in training theory, competition, technology, and what is to be expected from all of that.
This sounds like a dumb sentiment but I really believe in it. You’re more likely to run a sub 4:00 mile if you train for a sub 4:00 mile and not for a 4:10 mile. So many people show up and sandbag without realizing it cause they don’t think they could ever break 4:00, or 1:50, or whatever mark they are looking for. The extra 400m rep or two or searching for a faster pace in a workout due to belief in oneself does worlds more for these athletes than the spikes or the tracks do. The mind/confidence is so friggin powerful if you use it right, and people are realizing that a 4:00 mile is more doable than was thought before. It used to be impossible, then a world record, then only pros could run it, then a college record, and now if you’re a good college athlete 800m to 5k or even an excellent HS miler you have your sights on it. It’s awesome to see and I’m very happy to have been a HS athlete and now collegiate athlete in the middle of all of this.
My colleges recruiting standards were about 4:35 in the mile when I was a HS sophomore, and now it’s evolved to a 4:15, and our team doesn’t necessarily place a ton better now than it did then.
Ah yea the old “every college coach simultaneously switched to the same training” argument
Ah yeah the old “it’s a fast track” argument even though the BU track is the same as it was pre COVID and has been hosting the fastest indoor meets in the country fore more than a decade
it’s the shoes, get over it
Dude, I literally said it was the shoes. It was the first thing I listed. The other stuff matters as well. The exact percentages will differ from athlete to athlete (since some don't wear the super shoes, some never run at BU, and some don't do the DT workouts). It all matters and it varies from athlete to athlete.
No you didn’t say it’s the shoes. You said it’s the shoes AND a bunch of other things. I said that it’s just the shoes.
A good friend of mine was there; he texted me after the first 30 guys or so had broken four minutes... he was losing his mind.
It is a bad time to be one of the "the shoes are just hype" people. And for people who say it is only because of that blazing-fast track, well yes, that's part of it too but not all of it (because Tuohy, Monson, and Nuguse ran pretty dang fast on the Armory track as well). Also, the people who say the double thresholds have "been around forever and don't represent a shift in training," well, you are wrong as well. People are getting better coaching these days.
It all matters. Better shoes, better tracks, better training and likely starting "real training" at a younger age (and not just doing 20-25 miles a week in HS). It is an exciting era to be a track athlete.
Agree with this post a ton.
We are seeing a big breakthrough in training theory, competition, technology, and what is to be expected from all of that.
This sounds like a dumb sentiment but I really believe in it. You’re more likely to run a sub 4:00 mile if you train for a sub 4:00 mile and not for a 4:10 mile. So many people show up and sandbag without realizing it cause they don’t think they could ever break 4:00, or 1:50, or whatever mark they are looking for. The extra 400m rep or two or searching for a faster pace in a workout due to belief in oneself does worlds more for these athletes than the spikes or the tracks do. The mind/confidence is so friggin powerful if you use it right, and people are realizing that a 4:00 mile is more doable than was thought before. It used to be impossible, then a world record, then only pros could run it, then a college record, and now if you’re a good college athlete 800m to 5k or even an excellent HS miler you have your sights on it. It’s awesome to see and I’m very happy to have been a HS athlete and now collegiate athlete in the middle of all of this.
My colleges recruiting standards were about 4:35 in the mile when I was a HS sophomore, and now it’s evolved to a 4:15, and our team doesn’t necessarily place a ton better now than it did then.
"So many people show up and sandbag.." Well, it is good to know that the problem with college milers the past few decades has been the athletes sandbagging. I would thought a much more logical explanation was that they tried just as hard before, but they have better equipment now. But you must be right, today's generation isn't the self entitled bunch they are portrayed as, they actually work much harder than their lazy sand bagger parents. Yeah, that explains it. Good to know that suddenly in the past few years people suddenly realized they can push themselves harder. Curious that amazing self reflection happened at the exact same time as the super shoes. But it makes more sense that it is a stunning mental shift, not the shoes.
As someone who runs in both, I think that training in new supershoes is more impactful (ironically by lowering impact stress) than racing in superspikes. The recovery process is 100% reduced.
As someone who runs in both, I think that training in new supershoes is more impactful (ironically by lowering impact stress) than racing in superspikes. The recovery process is 100% reduced.
When people say “it’s the shoes” this is naturally included. Anybody who assumes the shoes argument is solely focused on the spikes worn in race is lacking critical thinking. Training + racing , it’s the shoes y’all
We are seeing a big breakthrough in training theory, competition, technology, and what is to be expected from all of that.
This sounds like a dumb sentiment but I really believe in it. You’re more likely to run a sub 4:00 mile if you train for a sub 4:00 mile and not for a 4:10 mile. So many people show up and sandbag without realizing it cause they don’t think they could ever break 4:00, or 1:50, or whatever mark they are looking for. The extra 400m rep or two or searching for a faster pace in a workout due to belief in oneself does worlds more for these athletes than the spikes or the tracks do. The mind/confidence is so friggin powerful if you use it right, and people are realizing that a 4:00 mile is more doable than was thought before. It used to be impossible, then a world record, then only pros could run it, then a college record, and now if you’re a good college athlete 800m to 5k or even an excellent HS miler you have your sights on it. It’s awesome to see and I’m very happy to have been a HS athlete and now collegiate athlete in the middle of all of this.
My colleges recruiting standards were about 4:35 in the mile when I was a HS sophomore, and now it’s evolved to a 4:15, and our team doesn’t necessarily place a ton better now than it did then.
"So many people show up and sandbag.." Well, it is good to know that the problem with college milers the past few decades has been the athletes sandbagging. I would thought a much more logical explanation was that they tried just as hard before, but they have better equipment now. But you must be right, today's generation isn't the self entitled bunch they are portrayed as, they actually work much harder than their lazy sand bagger parents. Yeah, that explains it. Good to know that suddenly in the past few years people suddenly realized they can push themselves harder. Curious that amazing self reflection happened at the exact same time as the super shoes. But it makes more sense that it is a stunning mental shift, not the shoes.
Kids these days dag nabbit! Oh man I love people like you. Taking credit away from people to make you feel better about yourself. let’s work through this logically right?
Two people have the absolute maximum genetic potential to run precisely 3:57.00, and they come out of highschool with a 4:15 PB or thereabouts.
One is constantly told that only the best of the best can run sub 4:00, and they are statistically not likely to. They ought to be realistic as to not mess up training for a pipe dream. They are constantly told the college standard for good is to break 4:10, and they will likely need to run 4:0something to go to natties. So the goal is to make it to natties. All training pace calculations done based off of their current fitness and goal fitness.
The other is told that everyone and their mom runs sub 4:00. There are rosters where you aren’t even traveling at 3:59, and a sub 4:00 is gonna be the bare minimum to score at conf/qual for natties. They are told a 4:15 HS miler turning into a 3:59 one is totally realistic progression for an athlete, and they are told that they are being given training equipment that will make them more durable in practice, and faster on race day. For this reason, they are trained with the attitude that they are training to run a sub 4:00 mile. They mentally believe they are capable because of top notch facilities and equipment (that likely give more of a placebo boost than a physical one)
"So many people show up and sandbag.." Well, it is good to know that the problem with college milers the past few decades has been the athletes sandbagging. I would thought a much more logical explanation was that they tried just as hard before, but they have better equipment now. But you must be right, today's generation isn't the self entitled bunch they are portrayed as, they actually work much harder than their lazy sand bagger parents. Yeah, that explains it. Good to know that suddenly in the past few years people suddenly realized they can push themselves harder. Curious that amazing self reflection happened at the exact same time as the super shoes. But it makes more sense that it is a stunning mental shift, not the shoes.
Kids these days dag nabbit! Oh man I love people like you. Taking credit away from people to make you feel better about yourself. let’s work through this logically right?
Two people have the absolute maximum genetic potential to run precisely 3:57.00, and they come out of highschool with a 4:15 PB or thereabouts.
One is constantly told that only the best of the best can run sub 4:00, and they are statistically not likely to. They ought to be realistic as to not mess up training for a pipe dream. They are constantly told the college standard for good is to break 4:10, and they will likely need to run 4:0something to go to natties. So the goal is to make it to natties. All training pace calculations done based off of their current fitness and goal fitness.
The other is told that everyone and their mom runs sub 4:00. There are rosters where you aren’t even traveling at 3:59, and a sub 4:00 is gonna be the bare minimum to score at conf/qual for natties. They are told a 4:15 HS miler turning into a 3:59 one is totally realistic progression for an athlete, and they are told that they are being given training equipment that will make them more durable in practice, and faster on race day. For this reason, they are trained with the attitude that they are training to run a sub 4:00 mile. They mentally believe they are capable because of top notch facilities and equipment (that likely give more of a placebo boost than a physical one)
Who is more likely to run sub 4:00?
You’re just creating scenarios in your head here and somehow believing it’s a legitimate counter argument to the material step change in performance they coincided with introduction of updated footwear technology. Basically what you’re saying is - before super shoes athletes just didn’t believe in themselves and now they do. Got it.