Why did Geb underperform at WXC and why was Tergat so good?

GROUND-CHEWING-STRIDE.

Nobby and many of the other above have it right. I saw Geb run two World x-country races: 1992 (2nd in junior race) and 1995 (4th, if I remember correctly). It's true that his form simply isn't as perfect for cross-country terrain as Tergat's. Geb really wanted to win in '95 and '96 but simply couldn't do it. If I remember correctly, in '95 his flight to Durham, England, was greatly delayed and the Ethiopian team arrived tired. In '96, I don't think he had that excuse--he was simply beaten by Tergat, who looked incredibly awesome (IAAF has films of all these races).

Bottom line: Tergat and Bekele are simply brilliant on the grass. Bekele is also brilliant on the track. However, neither of them are anywhere near as great--overall--as Geb.

HERE'S MY 2 CENTS WORTH: Cross Country runners are "pullers", meaning they do not use the last portion of the pushing phase of the stride as strongly, as the "pusher" runner. The grass and dirt (and mud) of the cross country course do not provide the traction that the asphalt or track does.

Remember John Treacy, Ireland, Silver Medal, Marathon, 1984? His form was ugly, crawling, pulling etc... It was 90*+ during the LA Olympic Marathon. You would not expect an Irishman to do well in a 90* marathon.... But he was also a great cross country runner, so at the end his was quite strong, outsprinting Spedding (of England)...

Pullers, in general are the better at the marathon, than shorter races. The reason is the fatigue build up is greater in the marathon in the "bounding" muscles and tendons of a Geb etc...

Ron Clarke ran massive miles in training, a 20+ miler each weekend.... Set 17 WR's.... but could not handle the last 5 miles of the marathon. I saw him race many times and it was amazing... He looked like he was pounding holes in the track, he landed so hard on each step. The best marathon stride is FLOATING, NO BOUNCING.

What are the heights/weights of Geb, Paul and Bek ?

I thought to be a top XC runner you needed real strength and perhaps be a shorter, choppier runner like Bekele, but Paul defies this? What about other great XC runners?

John Ngugi is probably the next best guy after those two. I think he won three titles. He was thick for a Kenyan and at least before he got good, Train Hard Win Easy said he had poor form. It must have gotten pretty good eventually. No one excels at that level if their mechanics are horribly inefficient.

geb ready wrote:

What is it in physiological terms that makes some people better at cross country?

Strength, hence Tergat's very good marathon credentials.

In response about Ngugi...I saw him win in '92...and was simply fascinated by his form. He had a VERY long stride with "slow" turnover. From his stride cadence, it looked as if he was running at half the pace of everyone else, and yet he was 50 or 100 meters ahead of them. Very odd form...but it clearly worked for him.

t ee sss tttt

mnbvcxz wrote:

I think that until Geb looses that "bounce" in his stride, he's not going to be able to take the world record--I think it's just too much of a beating on his legs for them to hold up for 26.2 miles. It's funny how that muscular action that gave him the edge over Tergat on the track now works against him on the roads.

Well, chock up another over-10k-in-distance road race accomplishment for Geb!!! Right now, I'd say he is about even with Tergat as far as road running accomplishments (Geb has 10 mile wr, 15k Wr(?), 1/2 marathon WC victory over Tergat, 1/2 marathon WR, and first 2 marathons run in 2:06, faster than Tergat's first 2 marathons. But Tergat has multiple 1/2 marathon world bests, and marathon WR, and head-to-head win at marathon over Geb). I guess the next few years should settle who is the better road racer and marathoner. I am picking Geb. If Geb beats Tergat in London, and sets WR, then he is the KING of the roads (just as he was the king of the track 5k/10k races, until Bekele came along). Hey Tergat will always have X-C to say he was better than Geb at.

Do you think that Geb has changed his stride, or do you think the "bounce" you referred to him hurts him only in X-C, but NOT on the roads? As someone else pointed out, flat road course are more like the track than X-C anyway.

Like alot of great athletes, Geb treated his off season as an off season. He saved the real stuff for the real meets(The olympics and worlds.) Do the NBA, NFL, MLB have more than 1 Finals, Super Bowl, or World Series? I think not. Bring it when it counts or don't bring it at all. Beside cross is a joke and even Geb knows that. Yea, lets have everyone run 12k. I wonder who will excel? HMM. Wait a minute it seems lik its 10k up. No crap, no wonder so many people hate the sport, there is no room for specialization. That's like the NBA stating the fall is going to be dedicated strictly to tip offs. My money would be on the centers. I'd put more money on the point guards not showing up. End of story.

Sir Lance-alot:

Am I the only one I find your line-by-line rebuttal interesting as well as entertaining? Needles to say I agree with your points.

You should be a lawyer, if not you are wasting your skill.

Well, according to the guy on the other thread, this is how it went down: "So Geb...looked so smooth the whole way. I have a couple pics where his face looks visibly strained, but his form was incredible. That bounciness people talk about hindering him in the full was definitely cut down a lot, he was just floating along."

So good for him. I'm still not sure what your problem is with people wondering about Geb's ability on the roads--is he your dad or something?