What do you guys think are the chances that Aaron Sahlman gets the high school record in the 800. I’m not sure if the 400m speed is there, but he has the endurance required.
The reason that the 800 record has lasted so long is because it's a REALLY difficult record to break.
The odds are against Aaron Sahlman breaking it. The most likely scenario is that he gets close to the record but doesn't break it.
Very difficult. I thought Elijah Greer (Oregon) was going to break it when he ran 1:47.68 as a HS junior. Ran 1:48.97 as a senior.
The reason that the 800 record has lasted so long is because it's a REALLY difficult record to break.
The odds are against Aaron Sahlman breaking it. The most likely scenario is that he gets close to the record but doesn't break it.
Very difficult. I thought Elijah Greer (Oregon) was going to break it when he ran 1:47.68 as a HS junior. Ran 1:48.97 as a senior.
Similarly, when Zavon Watkins (Liverpool NY) split a 1:47.9 as a soph it seemed like the record was toast for sure. He never even got the NY record (1:48.56). The 800 is a weird, weird event and 1:46.45 is an incredible mark. Sahlman has good ability but I would be shocked if he breaks it.
This is a slight tangent on the thread but in doing some research on the record holders, I found the full progression from Ted Meredith in 1912 to Granville in an old DyeStat stat of the week.
1:51.9m Ted Meredith, Mercersburg Academy, Mercersburg, PA, Olympic Games 7/12/1912 (for 800m Gold medal & World Record at Olympic Games in Stockholm, Sweden) 1:52.3y Don Bowden, Lincoln, San Jose, CA, North Coast Section 5/22/1954 1:50.6y Tom Carroll – Fordham Prep, New York, New York, Catholic Schools meet (NY) 6/3/1957 (also ran 1:49.2 for 800m in 1957) 1:50.6y Tom Sullivan, St. George, Evanston, IL, Golden West Invite (CA) 6/1/1961 1:49.2y Dennis Carr, Lowell, Whittier, CA, Compton (CA) Invitational 6/7/1963 1:48.8y Richard Joyce, Sierra, Whittier, CA, California HS State Meet (Bakersfield) 6/5/1965 1:48.5y Dale Scott, El Cerrito, El Cerrito, CA, Kennedy Games (Berkeley, CA) 6/10/1972 1:47.31m Pete Richardson, Berkeley, Berkeley, CA, California HS State Meet (Norwalk) 6/6/1981 1:46.58m George Kersh, Pearl, Pearl, MS, Golden West Invite (CA) 6/13/1987 1:46.45m Michael Granville, Bell Gardens, Bell Gardens, CA, California HS State Meet (Norwalk) 5/30/1996
I don't have much info on the older guys but what struck me is the record holders I could find were basically all 400/800 guys. I did see that George Kersh ran XC at Taft JC after high school and was a JUCO champ in 1500, so maybe he was more distance oriented but I couldn't find anything about him running xc or longer events in high school. Maybe some older guys will know more about the types of runners the guys in the 50s and 60s were but it looks to me like, if Sahlman does get the record (very big IF), he would be pretty much the only distance guy on the list.
There is absolutely zero Chance that he is running a HSR at 800 or any other distance, really.
And that doesn't make him any less a runner tan he is..which is a HS great and very talented with still a possible big future ahead.
He won cause the 2 best guys cooked themselves. He ran an 8:02 and. 1.48.9. he might be a couple seconds faster but we haven't seen anything to suggest he had a massive aerobic improvement where is say a 7:50 guy.
But HS progression is hit and miss. Rupp had a great senior year but that 13:37 was still a big outlier. Or Webb dropping a 3:53...
That being said the dude should run all the 800s he can. He will not be fast enough in college from what we have seen. He will be a 1500/3000m guy. Enjoy the short distances while you can.
Webb’s 3:53 was amazing, but it wasn’t as shocking as you think it was. He ran a triple at his district meet that season where he went 400 in 49, 800 in 1:49, and 1600 in 4:14 (1:52 final 800m). He also ran (at the time) the 3rd fastest HS indoor 2-mile that season.
pretty amazing that he did not break the 800 record that year, but he only really gave it one real shot where he ran 1:47.
3:53 is noticeably better than running 1:47.7 or 8:45. Or running 2 800s with like 40 mins rest. Things lined up on that day and he performed. That is true for a lot of people.
The problem for AS is that 1:49 was already an outlier. It was better than the rest of his 800s.
Again I wish him luck but that 800 record has had a lot of guys who ran 1:48s the year before and few of them have come close..of course it should be pointed out that Sumner and flatt had huge drops. Nobody was talking about them until indoors...
Again, you don't need great speed to be a sub-1:47 800m runner. There are different paths to the same result. More emphasis on top speed did not pan out for Greer. There have been many great 800-1500m men.
Again, you don't need great speed to be a sub-1:47 800m runner. There are different paths to the same result. More emphasis on top speed did not pan out for Greer. There have been many great 800-1500m men.
One of the reasons I looked up the record progression and posted it was because I wanted to see the different ways the record had been set in the past. From what I found, US high school runners just don't historically set these kind of 800 times without the top end speed. Someone earlier mentioned it might be due to aerobic development but only Webb has really managed to get close-ish to the record as a true miler/distance guy. From what I found, no one who I would categorize as an 800/1500 has broken 1:47. That doesn't mean that Aaron or someone in the future can't do it, but history is not on his side.
Again, you don't need great speed to be a sub-1:47 800m runner. There are different paths to the same result. More emphasis on top speed did not pan out for Greer. There have been many great 800-1500m men.
Low 49s is great speed for anyone who is running 8:00 3ks in HS😁 no it isn't the sub 47 that is great speed for 800m guy at a world class level.
We are left guessing if he is better than last year. Is winning NXN better than a 8:02 3k? Maybe. But not by much...
Again, you don't need great speed to be a sub-1:47 800m runner. There are different paths to the same result. More emphasis on top speed did not pan out for Greer. There have been many great 800-1500m men.
One of the reasons I looked up the record progression and posted it was because I wanted to see the different ways the record had been set in the past. From what I found, US high school runners just don't historically set these kind of 800 times without the top end speed. Someone earlier mentioned it might be due to aerobic development but only Webb has really managed to get close-ish to the record as a true miler/distance guy. From what I found, no one who I would categorize as an 800/1500 has broken 1:47. That doesn't mean that Aaron or someone in the future can't do it, but history is not on his side.
George Kersh was a 4:06/9:00 guy that had a 47.9 as his best 400. however i have to imagine he could have run at least high 46 considering he ran 1:46.5.
however, historically i agree. Pete richardson, and the guys before him were all 400/800 guys. you have to basically go back to don bowden to really find a national record holder that would be considered a 1600/3200 guy (or, 1 mile/2 mile because this was the 50s!)
George Kersh was a 4:06/9:00 guy that had a 47.9 as his best 400. however i have to imagine he could have run at least high 46 considering he ran 1:46.5.
however, historically i agree. Pete richardson, and the guys before him were all 400/800 guys. you have to basically go back to don bowden to really find a national record holder that would be considered a 1600/3200 guy (or, 1 mile/2 mile because this was the 50s!)
Thank you! I had been trying to find Kersh's high school times because I thought he might have some distance chops, since I saw he ran solid 4 mile xc times at Taft and also won a JUCO 1500 title. Those are a strong set of distance PRs for the late 80s but the 400 time seems to line up with others in the list.
He's got a MUCH better chance at the HS Mile record than 800m, that's for sure. Hope he gives both a good shot, no reason to focus on just getting a record in one distance if that one distance is in no way his long-term best race.
George Kersh was a 4:06/9:00 guy that had a 47.9 as his best 400. however i have to imagine he could have run at least high 46 considering he ran 1:46.5.
however, historically i agree. Pete richardson, and the guys before him were all 400/800 guys. you have to basically go back to don bowden to really find a national record holder that would be considered a 1600/3200 guy (or, 1 mile/2 mile because this was the 50s!)
Thank you! I had been trying to find Kersh's high school times because I thought he might have some distance chops, since I saw he ran solid 4 mile xc times at Taft and also won a JUCO 1500 title. Those are a strong set of distance PRs for the late 80s but the 400 time seems to line up with others in the list.
no problem. might have actually been a 4:06 mile which would make it a 4:04 1600 but i’m not sure.
Still, I don't recall a top high school miler to really go after top 800 times in high school. I don't even think Jim Ryun did. Colin Sahlman ran a couple 1:48s but the mile time was his primary goal in track. Alan Webb ran a 1:47.74, and he ran a triple in 80 minutes 10 days before his 3:53, with 4:06.7 (2:14/1:52!!), 49.29 to win the open 400, and 1:49.53 negative split. Had he run an 800m in the next couple weeks after Pre, I think he would have been close to the high school 800m record.
Still, I don't recall a top high school miler to really go after top 800 times in high school. I don't even think Jim Ryun did. Colin Sahlman ran a couple 1:48s but the mile time was his primary goal in track. Alan Webb ran a 1:47.74, and he ran a triple in 80 minutes 10 days before his 3:53, with 4:06.7 (2:14/1:52!!), 49.29 to win the open 400, and 1:49.53 negative split. Had he run an 800m in the next couple weeks after Pre, I think he would have been close to the high school 800m record.
The way he finished that last lap at Pre....if there's anyone that could've smashed the 800 record....it was Webb.
Still, I don't recall a top high school miler to really go after top 800 times in high school. I don't even think Jim Ryun did. Colin Sahlman ran a couple 1:48s but the mile time was his primary goal in track. Alan Webb ran a 1:47.74, and he ran a triple in 80 minutes 10 days before his 3:53, with 4:06.7 (2:14/1:52!!), 49.29 to win the open 400, and 1:49.53 negative split. Had he run an 800m in the next couple weeks after Pre, I think he would have been close to the high school 800m record.
You think, but there isn’t much evidence to support it. As most have pointed out, it’s a really tough record and requires speed neither of the Sahlmans seem to possess. Then again, with your fandom, supporting all things NP and Brosnan, I understand your faith.
This 400/800 vs 800/Mile debate is precisely why the 800 HS record is so hard to break.
The 800 is the 800. It doesn't matter if you're "Speed Based" or "Aerobic Based" as long as the primary goal is getting better at the 800m. A kid who is capable of running 1:46 in an American HS is going to be good at many other things and training will deviate from optimal 800m training because of that. Yeah, you can get really good at the 800m while running XC or running the 200m. But we're talking about #1.
Hell, forget about Cross Country and Sprinting... Guys like Isaiah Harris and Brandon Miller were literally playing basketball in HS!
Consider that a U19 Kenyan/Brit/Pole/Spaniard runs faster than the US HS Record almost every year. They start specializing way earlier.
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