A little bit of CONTEXT behind what Woody Kincaid has done

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2 years ago 01/29/2023 2:07pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Posters should slow down making too big a deal of W K's recent indoor performance. On another thread, I stated in so many words to wait and see.

* Some 5'10" guys are big striders, W K is not. A guy who moves her or his feet quickly and does not take big strides is not going to lose efficiency on the turns as much as a big strider.

* Indoor track engineers, as I have stated designed the tracks for optimum 1500m to two mile performance. A quick striding guy will race well indoors if his fitness is near top form.

* Air quality: Fifty years ago cigar smoking was allowed at M.S.G. for all sport entertainment activities. Air quality at indoor venues today may be better than air quality outdoors. Get an oxygen reading at some of the indoor venues before you say p.e.d.s or super fast shoes.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 2:46pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
“Relative obscurity” is far from the case to anyone paying attention.
Somebody doesn’t know what “relative” means.

Someone doesn’t know what track fan means.
Has been a pleasure watching him progress from his Colorado state xc championship to his All American runs under Conner to his place on the BTC lineup to his place as AR holder. All this sprinkled with bouts of injury or sacrificing fast races for teammates. Obscurity is only to the ill informed in this case.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:10pm EST

re: What it is

What it is wrote:
Running economy bro. He's using a lot less glycogen at that pace than you. So with one lap to go he still has a 26 second kick left in him.

If your 5k is glycogen dependent you've got bigger problems.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:12pm EST

re: John Wesley Harding

John Wesley Harding wrote:
... Brahim Lahlafi also ran faster than 12:51.61 after turning 30.

Moroccan guy in the early 2000s ...

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:18pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
Somebody doesn’t know what “relative” means.
Someone doesn’t know what track fan means.
Has been a pleasure watching him progress from his Colorado state xc championship to his All American runs under Conner to his place on the BTC lineup to his place as AR holder. All this sprinkled with bouts of injury or sacrificing fast races for teammates. Obscurity is only to the ill informed in this case.

I did. I not use it the words “track fan.” Woody Kincaid has been relatively obscure. This obviously doesn’t mean what you think it means. It means he was never well known like a Galen Rupp or Alan Webb among casual fans.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:28pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
Someone doesn’t know what track fan means.
Has been a pleasure watching him progress from his Colorado state xc championship to his All American runs under Conner to his place on the BTC lineup to his place as AR holder. All this sprinkled with bouts of injury or sacrificing fast races for teammates. Obscurity is only to the ill informed in this case.
I did. I not use it the words “track fan.” Woody Kincaid has been relatively obscure. This obviously doesn’t mean what you think it means. It means he was never well known like a Galen Rupp or Alan Webb among casual fans.

Do we get to choose our own definitions of words now, I guess? Any track fan worth their salt knows that Kincaid is not obscure (“not discovered or known about”).

You only started the thread looking for trouble anyway, bud. Go crawl in a hole.
*And at least check what you’ve written before sending. It makes you sound like Tarzan.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:33pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
I did. I not use it the words “track fan.” Woody Kincaid has been relatively obscure. This obviously doesn’t mean what you think it means. It means he was never well known like a Galen Rupp or Alan Webb among casual fans.
Do we get to choose our own definitions of words now, I guess? Any track fan worth their salt knows that Kincaid is not obscure (“not discovered or known about”).
You only started the thread looking for trouble anyway, bud. Go crawl in a hole.
*And at least check what you’ve written before sending. It makes you sound like Tarzan.

You do not understand the meaning of the word “relatively.” Kincaid was relatively obscure. Your grasp of the language is tenuous at best. Educating you is tedious.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:43pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
Do we get to choose our own definitions of words now, I guess? Any track fan worth their salt knows that Kincaid is not obscure (“not discovered or known about”).
You only started the thread looking for trouble anyway, bud. Go crawl in a hole.
*And at least check what you’ve written before sending. It makes you sound like Tarzan.
You do not understand the meaning of the word “relatively.” Kincaid was relatively obscure. Your grasp of the language is tenuous at best. Educating you is tedious.

No, you just got called on your BS thread; and you’re having difficulty dealing with it. That’s obvious. Take your veiled accusations of Kincaid elsewhere.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 3:47pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
You do not understand the meaning of the word “relatively.” Kincaid was relatively obscure. Your grasp of the language is tenuous at best. Educating you is tedious.
No, you just got called on your BS thread; and you’re having difficulty dealing with it. That’s obvious. Take your veiled accusations of Kincaid elsewhere.

Please elucidate upon my “veiled accusations.” I am commenting on the rarified air of Woody’s performance especially after age 30, and your biases and paranoia are triggering a sense that I am accusing Woody of something. I am sorry for your mental condition but I did not create it.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 4:04pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
No, you just got called on your BS thread; and you’re having difficulty dealing with it. That’s obvious. Take your veiled accusations of Kincaid elsewhere.
Please elucidate upon my “veiled accusations.” I am commenting on the rarified air of Woody’s performance especially after age 30, and your biases and paranoia are triggering a sense that I am accusing Woody of something. I am sorry for your mental condition but I did not create it.

Stop. Being disingenuous is weak; and you know exactly why you started the thread, Tarzan. It’s not wanted here.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 4:12pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
Please elucidate upon my “veiled accusations.” I am commenting on the rarified air of Woody’s performance especially after age 30, and your biases and paranoia are triggering a sense that I am accusing Woody of something. I am sorry for your mental condition but I did not create it.
Stop. Being disingenuous is weak; and you know exactly why you started the thread, Tarzan. It’s not wanted here.

One cannot praise a performance anymore without “Golly Gee Terwilliger” blowing a gasket over imaginary PED allegations.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:20pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
Stop. Being disingenuous is weak; and you know exactly why you started the thread, Tarzan. It’s not wanted here.
One cannot praise a performance anymore without “Golly Gee Terwilliger” blowing a gasket over imaginary PED allegations.

Sure…with emphasis on “AFTER 30” and “whatever is going on”. Be a man about what you did, and move on. It’s as simple as that.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:34pm EST

re: adobe

adobe wrote:
What it is wrote:
Running economy bro. He's using a lot less glycogen at that pace than you. So with one lap to go he still has a 26 second kick left in him.
If your 5k is glycogen dependent you've got bigger problems.

You're missing the point. He is more energy efficient than you. It's not difficult to understand.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:35pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
One cannot praise a performance anymore without “Golly Gee Terwilliger” blowing a gasket over imaginary PED allegations.
Sure…with emphasis on “AFTER 30” and “whatever is going on”. Be a man about what you did, and move on. It’s as simple as that.

The “whatever is going on” was in reference to the rarity of his “after turning 30” performance BUT as JWH astutely pointed out, there were a couple other examples. Doping is one possibility but I never assumed it had to be the explanation. It appears as if you assume it is the explanation, however…anyway your ego led you to derail the thread.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:38pm EST

re: Terwilliger

Terwilliger wrote:
Are you kidding me wrote:
One cannot praise a performance anymore without “Golly Gee Terwilliger” blowing a gasket over imaginary PED allegations.
Sure…with emphasis on “AFTER 30” and “whatever is going on”. Be a man about what you did, and move on. It’s as simple as that.

Yes, OP was implying something and is now trying to deny it.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:41pm EST

re: What it is

What it is wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
Sure…with emphasis on “AFTER 30” and “whatever is going on”. Be a man about what you did, and move on. It’s as simple as that.
Yes, OP was implying something and is now trying to deny it.

I was discussing an unusual performance. You make assumptions due to a lack of intelligence, much like “Golly gee Terwilliger.” Anyway even if I had been insinuating PED usage, so what?

2 years ago 01/29/2023 5:49pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

If you are not at all obscure, can you really be relatively obscure?

2 years ago 01/29/2023 6:02pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

I think one aspect of Woody's career that gets overlooked how late he got into the sport and how rocky his path has been. He didn't even start running until his sophomore year in HS, and his first season was pretty modest (~18 minute 5k iirc.)

He slowly improved year after year before eventually becoming the Colorado state champ his senior year, but it still doesn't seem like he was training very seriously at that point. His college career, too, was slow moving, not breaking 14 minutes in the 5k until his junior year.

After joining Bowerman he finally broke through, running 13:12 for 5k indoors in 2017. Then he's injured for pretty much two years. I hardly even realized he was still running competitively in 2019 when he had his infamous battle with Chelimo at the '19 USA champs. Later that fall he broke 13:00 minutes in the 5k.

I disagree with Rojo who says that Grant is clearly more talented than Woody -- I think Grant just had years of great training from 13-23 that allowed him to run faster times at younger ages.

Considering how long it took for Woody to be able to train consistently at a high level, it doesn't surprise me that he's coming on so strong later in his career (his training age is probably closer to someone in their mid-20's.) I think the best is still yet to come for Woody and I can't wait to see what he can do in the next few years if he stays healthy and finds himself in the right situation.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 6:05pm EST

re: Are you kidding me

Are you kidding me wrote:
Terwilliger wrote:
Sure…with emphasis on “AFTER 30” and “whatever is going on”. Be a man about what you did, and move on. It’s as simple as that.
The “whatever is going on” was in reference to the rarity of his “after turning 30” performance BUT as JWH astutely pointed out, there were a couple other examples. Doping is one possibility but I never assumed it had to be the explanation. It appears as if you assume it is the explanation, however…anyway your ego led you to derail the thread.

You got caught. Own up to it. You’re a troublemaker; and now, a liar.

2 years ago 01/29/2023 6:13pm EST

re: 600yd/600m man

600yd/600m man wrote:
Posters should slow down making too big a deal of W K's recent indoor performance. On another thread, I stated in so many words to wait and see.
* Some 5'10" guys are big striders, W K is not. A guy who moves her or his feet quickly and does not take big strides is not going to lose efficiency on the turns as much as a big strider.
* Indoor track engineers, as I have stated designed the tracks for optimum 1500m to two mile performance. A quick striding guy will race well indoors if his fitness is near top form.
* Air quality: Fifty years ago cigar smoking was allowed at M.S.G. for all sport entertainment activities. Air quality at indoor venues today may be better than air quality outdoors. Get an oxygen reading at some of the indoor venues before you say p.e.d.s or super fast shoes.

Woody was the same strider in 2016 as he is now. Why not the 12:51 then?

tfrrs.org

TFRRS | William Kincaid – Track and Field Results & Statistics

Link:www.tfrrs.org/athletes/3737559

The ascension of Woody aligns with the ascension of the super spike. An identical timeline.

Could it be that Woody is not just a super shoe responder, but a super shoe super responder?

Why don't you ask these guys whether they thought Woody had a 12:51 in him?