Noah Ngeny is the first guy I go better than 50-50 clean. Kiplagat I have at pretty much 50-50. First four are around 20-80 or worse for me.
Yes! I loved that era (1999-2000) too and that was also the best era of cycling (Jan Ulrich vs. Lance Armstrong), but as we know, there were no EPO tests yet. I can't believe clean guys could have beating all the best dopers of that generation... Sadly.
Yes! I loved that era (1999-2000) too and that was also the best era of cycling (Jan Ulrich vs. Lance Armstrong), but as we know, there were no EPO tests yet. I can't believe clean guys could have beating all the best dopers of that generation... Sadly.
Well I guess I’d expect to hear more innuendo about the KIM group at this point.
Not to be cynical, but a lot of these times are suspicious. In fact, several of these guys have been outright busted for PEDs.
So, knowing what we know, of all the guys who have broken 3:30, who do you think has the clean world record? And why. You don't have to tell me who you think is dirty, just your vote for clean world record holder. And if you think all these guys are dirty, just say, "none."
1 3:26.0 Hicham EL GUERROUJ 2 3:26.3 Bernard LAGAT 3 3:26.7 Asbel KIPROP 4 3:27.4 Noureddine MORCELI 5 3:27.6 Silas KIPLAGAT 6 3:28.1 Noah NGENY 7 3:28.3 Timothy CHERUIYOT 8 3:28.3 Jakob INGEBRIGTSEN 9 3:28.7 Taoufik MAKHLOUFI 10 3:28.8 Mohamed KATIR 11 3:28.8 Abdelaati IGUIDER 12 3:28.8 Elijah Motonei MANANGOI 13 3:28.8 Mo FARAH 13 3:28.8 Ronald KWEMOI 15 3:28.9 Fermín CACHO 16 3:29.0 Mehdi BAALA 17 3:29.0 Daniel Kipchirchir KOMEN 18 3:29.0 Josh KERR 19 3:29.1 Rashid RAMZI 20 3:29.2 Vénuste NIYONGABO 21 3:29.2 Jake WIGHTMAN 22 3:29.3 William CHIRCHIR 23 3:29.5 Saïd AOUITA 23 3:29.5 Daniel KOMEN 25 3:29.5 Augustine Kiprono CHOGE 26 3:29.5 Caleb Mwangangi NDIKU 27 3:29.5 Ali SAIDI-SIEF 27 3:29.5 Stewart MCSWEYN 29 3:29.5 Amine LAALOU 30 3:29.6 Abel KIPSANG 31 3:29.6 Ayanleh SOULEIMAN 32 3:29.7 Nick WILLIS 33 3:29.7 Steve CRAM 34 3:29.8 Sydney MAREE 34 3:29.8 Sebastian COE
Zero. No one under 3:30 is clean. Real clean is probably around 3:33-3:34
None of the above. 3:30 is not achievable naturally. They run 3:34-3:35 naturally and then start doping. If you think I’m crazy you don’t know the sport and human body well.
Not to be cynical, but a lot of these times are suspicious. In fact, several of these guys have been outright busted for PEDs.So, knowing what we know, of all the guys who have broken 3:30, who do you think has the clean worl...
1 3:26.0 Hicham EL GUERROUJ 2 3:26.3 Bernard LAGAT 3 3:26.7 Asbel KIPROP 4 3:27.4 Noureddine MORCELI 5 3:27.6 Silas KIPLAGAT 6 3:28.1 Noah NGENY 7 3:28.3 Timothy CHERUIYOT 8 3:28.3 Jakob INGEBRIGTSEN 9 3:28.7 Taoufik MAKHLOUFI 10 3:28.8 Mohamed KATIR 11 3:28.8 Abdelaati IGUIDER 12 3:28.8 Elijah Motonei MANANGOI 13 3:28.8 Mo FARAH 13 3:28.8 Ronald KWEMOI 15 3:28.9 Fermín CACHO 16 3:29.0 Mehdi BAALA 17 3:29.0 Daniel Kipchirchir KOMEN 18 3:29.0 Josh KERR 19 3:29.1 Rashid RAMZI 20 3:29.2 Vénuste NIYONGABO 21 3:29.2 Jake WIGHTMAN 22 3:29.3 William CHIRCHIR 23 3:29.5 Saïd AOUITA 23 3:29.5 Daniel KOMEN 25 3:29.5 Augustine Kiprono CHOGE 26 3:29.5 Caleb Mwangangi NDIKU 27 3:29.5 Ali SAIDI-SIEF 27 3:29.5 Stewart MCSWEYN 29 3:29.5 Amine LAALOU 30 3:29.6 Abel KIPSANG 31 3:29.6 Ayanleh SOULEIMAN 32 3:29.7 Nick WILLIS 33 3:29.7 Steve CRAM 34 3:29.8 Sydney MAREE 34 3:29.8 Sebastian COE
Somebody who knows more about PED busts and the history of doping should go through this list and scratch out all the names that have actually been busted OR who set their PRs precisely during the pre-testing EPO era.
Once those are gone, and we delete the names of people whose coaches encouraged/supported doping, we will be left with just a few names, Aouita, Willis, Kerr, Maree, etc. Who is left once we take the most likely dopers off the list?
None of the above. 3:30 is not achievable naturally. They run 3:34-3:35 naturally and then start doping. If you think I’m crazy you don’t know the sport and human body well.
This is nutty. Does that mean John Walker and Filbert Bayi were both doping when they ran 3:32 in 1974? With 1974 spikes on a 1974 track surface without pacers? (which is to say, if those guys were clean then naturally people would have run faster since).
But seriously, the answer is Gunder Hägg’s 3:43.0.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Noah Ngeny is the first guy I go better than 50-50 clean. Kiplagat I have at pretty much 50-50. First four are around 20-80 or worse for me.
I don’t see this at all. A 20 year old Kenyan who goes from 3:30.3 to 3:43.4y in one year, still the second fastest mile of all time, at the height of the EPO era? Who that same year runs 2:11.96 for 1K with crazy splits of 49.7/1:44.6, coming into the race with a 1:46.5 800 PB and then never running faster than 1:44.49 for 800 in his life? Who outkicks two of your 20-80 guys in El G and Lagat to win Olympic gold? He seems as sketchy as anyone who hasn’t actually been sanctioned for a positive test.
This is nutty. Does that mean John Walker and Filbert Bayi were both doping when they ran 3:32 in 1974? With 1974 spikes on a 1974 track surface without pacers? (which is to say, if those guys were clean then naturally people would have run faster since).
I agree with your point that if Filbert Bayi was running 3:32 clean, then modern guys in super-shoes on super-tracks training with high-tech support, altitude, coaching, P/T, recovery options, and perfect nutrition should be able to go 2 seconds faster. That puts the clean record somewhere around 3:30 in my mind. From there, we just need to find a few outliers who are a level above a Ryun, Snell, Bayi, Keino, etc. and we dip under 3:30.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
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I agree with your point that if Filbert Bayi was running 3:32 clean, then modern guys in super-shoes on super-tracks training with high-tech support, altitude, coaching, P/T, recovery options, and perfect nutrition should be able to go 2 seconds faster. That puts the clean record somewhere around 3:30 in my mind. From there, we just need to find a few outliers who are a level above a Ryun, Snell, Bayi, Keino, etc. and we dip under 3:30.
8 guys on one college team (WA) just did sub-4 in one race last night, and you think only 2 seconds faster?
That no one can be sure what the clean world record is - although the assumption is that the existing record isn't - shows where the sport is. Nothing is credible. Everything can be doubted. Nothing can be trusted to be what it seems. Welcome to the world of professional running.
Moranalert! said: 8 guys on one college team (WA) just did sub-4 in one race last night, and you think only 2 seconds faster?"
I fully agree with you, actually. When I think about Ryun and Hobbs Kessler and other youngsters running in the mid-3:30s, I assume highly trained, grown men could go a few seconds faster. I agree with that.
And because I fully believe in the times run by athletes like Ryun, Walker, Bayi and Snell, I also fully believe people can go faster than that.
I just don't how much faster. That is why I am asking for other people's opinion. I am just trying to listen to others and broaden my perspective.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.