Oh well. This is pretty much the opposite of cheating. More power to them.
True enough. But it is still violating a fundamental tenet of sport. Men and women are different, and deserve to be treated differently. That includes racing separately.
Will the men’s team cut her? Clearly she will be of no help to them in the pool.
Meh as long as the amount of testosterone the transgender male is on isn't crazy high that would fail a test not super against this. We could have 3 different categories in our sport.. or more.. just adopt Paralympic categories:
This would def slow debate in sports around the subject... would is stop it completely: No but it would no longer exclude people orphaned by a system while still allowing xx born athletes to have a chance to compete in sport
Oh well. This is pretty much the opposite of cheating. More power to them.
True enough. But it is still violating a fundamental tenet of sport. Men and women are different, and deserve to be treated differently. That includes racing separately.
Will the men’s team cut her? Clearly she will be of no help to them in the pool.
I disagree. The men’s division is effectively the open division. Anyone is allowed to compete.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2021/06/kiwi-marathon-great-allison-roe-concerned-about-future-of-women-s-sport-as-transgender-debate-grows.html Roe, a former New York and Boston marathon winner, believes the impact of a...
And since no trans athletes that are xx are clamoring to compete with bio men, we must conclude that an unfair advantage is at the root of men seeking to compete as women. Self interest will always point to the clearest motivation underlying the non binary athletic phenomenon. (#29)
No collegiate conference can trans your kid quite like the Ivy's. If you want to ruin your kid as a parent, no better place to send them if you can get them accepted.
"Ivy's"? Gonna take a wild guess here that you were not accepted.
Oh well. This is pretty much the opposite of cheating. More power to them.
True enough. But it is still violating a fundamental tenet of sport. Men and women are different, and deserve to be treated differently. That includes racing separately.
Will the men’s team cut her? Clearly she will be of no help to them in the pool.
yeah Dude, No. Lots of women athletes have entered men's races. They usually want tougher competition. They have no competitive advantage.
Competitors should be welcome to compete in a more difficult category, such as a woman going against men. Not the other way down, looking for easy podiums. My thoughts here is she was probably doping, to not get caught just say it was for transition to as a man. Why else throw away Olympic potential? Fyi supplied T levels for trans f2m can be higher than what a natural male can produce.
Competitors should be welcome to compete in a more difficult category, such as a woman going against men. Not the other way down, looking for easy podiums. My thoughts here is she was probably doping, to not get caught just say it was for transition to as a man. Why else throw away Olympic potential? Fyi supplied T levels for trans f2m can be higher than what a natural male can produce.
1. I have no issue with trans men competing alongside men, and given how hard trans women fight to compete in the women's category, trans men should insist on it. This person was transitioning but competed against women last year. I thought that was interesting given Lia's insistence in being her "authentic" self by competing against women but this person had no issue with continuing to compete against women even though he came out as a man. This same logic applies to Nikki Hiltz who says they are not a woman, but will NEVER compete in any category outside the women's category in sports.
2. I disagree with you that this person is transitioning because they were caught. The issue of trans women competing against cis women in sports is a complex one but to suggest that anyone who IS transgender is not REALLY transgender and there has to be an alternate reason is silly. Trans people do exist.
Henig perhaps started on testosterone hence the switch. It was reported earlier that Henig decided not to take testosterone so they could stay on women's team. Also FINA is creating an open category, don't know the details on that.
Of the 4 guys she beat, according to OutKick, were a swimmer born without a left arm and three others who specialize in the breaststroke.
I wonder how this person would have performed without exogenous testosterone?
Henig probably would have come in dead last.
The experience of the elite international swimmers who raced for the GDR in the 60s, 70s and 80s show that female swimmers fed high-dose androgens throughout adolescence and their adult competing years could reach race times that were 1-2% faster than the non-doped female swimmers they competed against.
But gaining an edge of 1-2% over other ace female swimmers wouldn't come anywhere near to closing the performance gap between elite male and female swimmers, which is consistently 9-12%.
As of January 2023, Henig has been on testosterone-based hormone therapy for eight months. He most recently swam at the 2022 Ohio State Invite, where he was 79th in the 50 free (22.07), 73rd in the 100 free (47.94), and 69th in the 200 free (1:45.86). Those times are slightly slower than his personal bests while swimming for the women’s team.
Henig perhaps started on testosterone hence the switch. It was reported earlier that Henig decided not to take testosterone so they could stay on women's team. Also FINA is creating an open category, don't know the details on that.
FINA's current rules allow female athletes taking exogenous testosterone and other anabolic substances as part of "gender affirming hormone treatment" to compete in men's aquatics provided they've obtained a TUE.
(In the case of men's water polo and men's high diving, however, the FINA rules say someone like Henig would have to sign a waiver stating that the athlete is fully aware that any female person participating in those men's events faces much higher risks of injury and death and releasing FINA and everyone else from liability.)
When FINA announced its new rules in June of 2022, officials said they were considering creating an open category, but there's been no news since then about what's happening on that score.
However, the impression that I got from watching FINA's lengthy public presentation explaining the new rules last June is that some of the human rights lawyers and "diversity and inclusion" experts advising FINA on its policies were having some reservations about starting a third "open" category for athletes who don't feel they fit into either the male or female category due to DSDs or gender identity.
Competitors should be welcome to compete in a more difficult category, such as a woman going against men. Not the other way down, looking for easy podiums. My thoughts here is she was probably doping, to not get caught just say it was for transition to as a man. Why else throw away Olympic potential? Fyi supplied T levels for trans f2m can be higher than what a natural male can produce.
1. I have no issue with trans men competing alongside men, and given how hard trans women fight to compete in the women's category, trans men should insist on it. This person was transitioning but competed against women last year. I thought that was interesting given Lia's insistence in being her "authentic" self by competing against women but this person had no issue with continuing to compete against women even though he came out as a man. This same logic applies to Nikki Hiltz who says they are not a woman, but will NEVER compete in any category outside the women's category in sports.
2. I disagree with you that this person is transitioning because they were caught. The issue of trans women competing against cis women in sports is a complex one but to suggest that anyone who IS transgender is not REALLY transgender and there has to be an alternate reason is silly. Trans people do exist.
Clearly you did not read article, and also have been proven wrong in recent posts, as this female trying to become a man is on anabolic steroids .
Competitors should be welcome to compete in a more difficult category, such as a woman going against men. Not the other way down, looking for easy podiums. My thoughts here is she was probably doping, to not get caught just say it was for transition to as a man. Why else throw away Olympic potential? Fyi supplied T levels for trans f2m can be higher than what a natural male can produce.
Henig's best result in women's competition was 5th in last year's NCAA. The swimmer who tied with Henig in that race finished 6th in the B Final (14th overall) in last year's trial. Henig did not compete in the trial last year, or the year before.
Olympic potential? Yeah, anyone has "potential."
And Henig started testosterone right after NCAA last year. Henig is not hiding anything.
As of January 2023, Henig has been on testosterone-based hormone therapy for eight months. He most recently swam at the 2022 Ohio State Invite, where he was 79th in the 50 free (22.07), 73rd in the 100 free (47.94), and 69th in the 200 free (1:45.86). Those times are slightly slower than his personal bests while swimming for the women’s team.
That article makes it sound like Henig isn't training and trying nearly as hard as Henig did when Henig was on the women's team and still had good chances of winning and placing. Seems like in making the switch to the men's swim squad, Henig has lost a lot of the competitive drive that previously caused the athlete to want to succeed and personally excel in the pool:
“...I’m not as successful in the sport as I was on the women’s team,” Henig said. “Instead, I’m trying to connect with my teammates in new ways, to cheer loudly, to focus more on the excitement of the sport. Competing and being challenged is the best part. It’s a different kind of fulfillment. And it’s pretty great to feel comfortable in the locker room every day.”
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