Hands down Tom Rutledge the Missouri Southern Cross Country Coach. The best there ever was!
Rutledge is widely know as a major jerk that nobody liked. I have never heard anyone say something nice about him. That includes coaches and athletes. Every single person I have ever talked to has said the guy is a jerk. And his xc course is short.
Can he hold a candle to Al Carius from North Central, the real “best college cross country coach ever”?
19 NCAA Division III team national championships (national record, all divisions). Including seven of his last 10 championships (2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018). 16 national runner-up finishes. Finished fourth or better at 42 of 47 Division III championship meets. 127 All-America awards, including eight individual national champions.
D2 and D3 accolades mean nothing. If I dominate my local YMCA rec league, does that make me a great athlete? No
Can he hold a candle to Al Carius from North Central, the real “best college cross country coach ever”?
19 NCAA Division III team national championships (national record, all divisions). Including seven of his last 10 championships (2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018). 16 national runner-up finishes. Finished fourth or better at 42 of 47 Division III championship meets. 127 All-America awards, including eight individual national champions.
D2 and D3 accolades mean nothing. If I dominate my local YMCA rec league, does that make me a great athlete? No
What does that make the D1 Ohio Valley Conference? The senior citizen rec league?
Can he hold a candle to Al Carius from North Central, the real “best college cross country coach ever”?
19 NCAA Division III team national championships (national record, all divisions). Including seven of his last 10 championships (2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018). 16 national runner-up finishes. Finished fourth or better at 42 of 47 Division III championship meets. 127 All-America awards, including eight individual national champions.
D2 and D3 accolades mean nothing. If I dominate my local YMCA rec league, does that make me a great athlete? No
I seriously doubt that you could dominate your local YMCA rec league, let alone D2 or D3.
D2 and D3 accolades mean nothing. If I dominate my local YMCA rec league, does that make me a great athlete? No
I seriously doubt that you could dominate your local YMCA rec league, let alone D2 or D3.
Doesn’t matter if I can or not. The point is it’s lower quality of competition. The only person who can have a valid claim to being the best in the entire NCAA is the person who dominates D1 nationally, not a lesser D1 conference and definitely not D2 or D3.
Can he hold a candle to Al Carius from North Central, the real “best college cross country coach ever”?
19 NCAA Division III team national championships (national record, all divisions). Including seven of his last 10 championships (2009, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018). 16 national runner-up finishes. Finished fourth or better at 42 of 47 Division III championship meets. 127 All-America awards, including eight individual national champions.
Didn't Jack Daniels win the D3 National Championship almost every year he coached the SUNY Cortland women?
Both Vigil and Al Carious are great coaches who would have won championships on the DI level. Many of the best coaches aren't at the DI level, because they like what they do and where they are at.
This is true. Jay Wright stayed at Villanova (until the transfer portal and the NIL rules made coaching college less enjoyable) even though he could have had any job out he wanted. This is because he made a comfortable living and loved the area.
I don't know Al Carius's story, but Vigil was from Alamosa and he was a professor at the college, which was likely his main income source. So he probably lived the life he wanted.
He developed the talent he was given, it's impressive. You'll never be able to figure out who the "best coach" for all we know it's some schmuck in NY who turns 22 min guys into 16:00 guys in 4 years routinely, but you'd never truly know.
Depends on how much weight you want to give the fact that success in any amateur sport is at least 75% recruiting.
Maybe so, though demonstrable success is key to recruiting. Pat Porter was arguably one of Vigil's greatest success stories and he started out at Metro State in Denver and transferred to Adams State. Maybe a lot of Adams State stars through the years were overlooked by CU or CSU, certainly in the years before Wetmore gained a reputation for building great teams with walk-ons. Maybe easier admissions than the large state schools was an aid. If you've been lucky enough to meet him, there's no denying Vigil's wonderful charisma. Some combination of factors led them to choose the remote patch of dirt known as Alamosa.
Joe Newton at York High School was very much influenced by Vigil.
Yes, looking at those workouts they're virtually exactly what Newton describes in his books. Marius Bakken always claimed that Newton showed him the level you needed to train at that prepared him for post high school.
Now, people claim it was too much for high school runners but 99% of high school runners have neither the talent nor the aspirations to run at such a level so you might as well be prepared if you're going to go beyond high school. I wish my high school coach had pushed us harder, when I went to college I just couldn't handle the work load.
How many sub 4 milers did Carius produce? Olympians? Sub 9 steeplechasers? Zero? Their best runner ever would not make some D1 teams.
He developed the talent he was given, it's impressive. You'll never be able to figure out who the "best coach" for all we know it's some schmuck in NY who turns 22 min guys into 16:00 guys in 4 years routinely, but you'd never truly know.
Among many, many other accolades, Joe Vigil developed Pat Porter from a 4:29 HS miler into 27:39 Road 10k WR holder.
How many sub 4 milers did Carius produce? Olympians? Sub 9 steeplechasers? Zero? Their best runner ever would not make some D1 teams.
You do know that DIII doesn’t offer athletic scholarships, right?
You do know that D1 men's teams are limited to just 12.6 scholarships for the entire track and cross programs combined? And that there are plenty of rich kids who don't need to worry about scholarships?
It's probably not hard to convince a few kids who would have to compete for a spot on an above average D1 team to instead drop to a quality D3 school and have a guaranteed spot on a guaranteed national champion. Much harder to out-recruit all the other top D1 schools who are gunning for the same top guys.
Joe Vigil was the best XC coach ever and coached the best US XC athlete ever and neither ever had anything to do with D1. Pat Porter crushed every D1 NCAA champion he ever faced
Joe Newton at York High School was very much influenced by Vigil.
Yes, looking at those workouts they're virtually exactly what Newton describes in his books. Marius Bakken always claimed that Newton showed him the level you needed to train at that prepared him for post high school.
Now, people claim it was too much for high school runners but 99% of high school runners have neither the talent nor the aspirations to run at such a level so you might as well be prepared if you're going to go beyond high school. I wish my high school coach had pushed us harder, when I went to college I just couldn't handle the work load.
If you couldn’t handle the workload when you were 20 years old, you wouldn’t have been able to handle it when you were 16.
face it, good people are good because they can handle the training, guys who aren’t good can’t handle the training it takes to be good.
Sorry, but not everyone has it.Stop blaming your HS coach for your lack of ability.
Hey jackass...I never said I was talented and I was 18 when I graduated, not 16. We trained in a park and it was all just steady runs. I walked on at a state school and it was a completely different culture.
Please tell us all what it's like to be a dick your entire life.
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