I ran it today and had 4.99 on my GPS. It's a legit 8K. Maybe some people cut the corners very tight. I'm not sure though. They've had the same course for years now.
I ran it today and had 4.99 on my GPS. It's a legit 8K. Maybe some people cut the corners very tight. I'm not sure though. They've had the same course for years now.
Anyone who says it's accurate because of what their watch said is a fool
But there's a ton of people over the years who have had a similar result with GPS. I could see if a lot of people were getting 4.8-4.9, but very few people have. It's impossible to police people cutting off small chunks of the course, so I'd say it's as close to an 8K as you can get.
These kids are just next level now. I was at Paul Short in 2017 when Dalton Hengst won with a 14:57 and that was the #7 time in the country at that point. In Friday’s race we get two kids running sub 14:48 and third place was 14:58!
Lots of sub 25's and sub 22's in the men's and women's college races respectively that finished very deep into the races are now walking around feeling really good about themselves . Teams finishing in the 30s and below have press releases where coaches are talking about PR's and how well they ran. Lots of high school boys and girls sub 17 and sub 20 respectively who are literally finishing near the bottom of the scoring positions are now emailing college coaches their times .
just saw a social media post from a coach of a somewhat notable college team that scored over 1000 points and bragged about the "epic day" and all the PR's. What percentage of the high school kids could actually get on an outdoor track next week and match their times for a 5k that they ran at Paul Short?
Paul short this year was a combination of perfect factors. The temperature was ideal low 60s and overcast all day, there was next to no humidity and only a slight breeze. Additionally it rained the weekend prior but not since then so the ground was firm but not rock hard, more like a track feeling. And yes most of the runners were wearing dragonfly's and could take full advantage of them. In past year's it almost always seems like the course is wet and soggy with the turns mudded out. Also the temperature is not normally this well suited for fast times. some years back the high school races were cancelled due to the amount of heat related medical issues the college athletes had early in the day.
Paul short this year was a combination of perfect factors. The temperature was ideal low 60s and overcast all day, there was next to no humidity and only a slight breeze. Additionally it rained the weekend prior but not since then so the ground was firm but not rock hard, more like a track feeling. And yes most of the runners were wearing dragonfly's and could take full advantage of them. In past year's it almost always seems like the course is wet and soggy with the turns mudded out. Also the temperature is not normally this well suited for fast times. some years back the high school races were cancelled due to the amount of heat related medical issues the college athletes had early in the day.
Always somebody has to speculate that temperature, humidity, and even wind resistance have some effect on running speed. Toughen up, no excuses, none of that matters, it’s all about toughness or something like that. (Actually, great post, we needed you earlier in this thread).
Kamred Todd of Utah State was third in 23:07 and I looked at his other xc results on tfrrs.org in the link. He has run in the 23:30s and 23:40s on something like five other occasions, including 23:35.8 and 23:36.2 at Paul Short and Nuttycombe in 2021. So, I think it's reasonable to think that the course was short by ten or twenty seconds, allowing for ten to twenty seconds improvement on his part. The sheer # of teams averaging 23s was insane. But where there is a clear and obvious discrepancy is in the women's 6k. A D3 woman from Emory who has run 16:50 ran 20:22 to win the Brown race, which is just not feasible.
Per the Daniels calculator, 16:50 5k is equivalent to 20:24 6k. Is it the improvement of a third of a second per kilometer that tipped you off on the time being implausibly fast?
I see it differently- this athlete’s PRs and performance are one data point suggesting the course is legit- when you consider the great weather and footing and elevation profile (based on hearing it is not hilly).
Paul Short today was not a real 8k, right? I mean, when was the last time 90 guys broke 24 in one race, especially one like this without many top 30 teams in it? I can see Parker wolfe and a few other top guys running 23:20 on a good day, but 23:00 is a 40 second PR even for him, which seems pretty unlikely. I mean, it can't be that unheard of for races to be measured short, especially if they moved around the start line or finish.
The ladies 6K times all seemed too good to be true as well
Conditions were perfect at Lehigh yesterday. Gary Martin's meet record in the HS boys 5K was broken by Brian DiCola. Heard that DiCola's 14:43 yesterday was second fastest HS XC 5K all time in PA state history, behind only Martin's time at RunningLane.
Conditions were perfect at Lehigh yesterday. Gary Martin's meet record in the HS boys 5K was broken by Brian DiCola. Heard that DiCola's 14:43 yesterday was second fastest HS XC 5K all time in PA state history, behind only Martin's time at RunningLane.
DiCola has some stiff credentials for those unaware: 9:02 3200m and 14:44 on the track last season. State champ in the 3k.
Treat these times like a track and it just about matches up.
This course remains unchanged in like forever. To put in perspective Bobby Curtis ran in like the 23.30's low I think, the year he was 3rd at NCAA Cross and won Outdoor 5K . Bobby Papazian a NJ star and Nova transfer was 4th one year in 24 flat. Guys are better overall now for sure and the course was firm enough and soft enough, Temps were great, it was a beautiful day for XC. The depth of marks astounds me too, but the course is 8K, people wheel it every year. It is what it is.
Or, another way of putting it, 20:22 at this time of year is similar to the best in the country for D1. Those are mid 15 5000m runners. A 16:50 D3 runner should be running 21.
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