I think we can assume that the way this race plays out is that Rudisha runs from the front, so it comes down to whether Coe and/or Kipketer can pass him on the home stretch. Personally, I think prime Kipketer gets him at the line. Close race. All three are obviously legends. Run the race ten times in a season, though, I think it goes Rudisha (4 wins), Kipketer (4 wins), Coe (2 wins). Run the race 10 times on 10 successive days, though, and I think it goes Coe (5), Rudisha (3), Kipketer (2).
I think we can assume that the way this race plays out is that Rudisha runs from the front, so it comes down to whether Coe and/or Kipketer can pass him on the home stretch. Personally, I think prime Kipketer gets him at the line. Close race. All three are obviously legends. Run the race ten times in a season, though, I think it goes Rudisha (4 wins), Kipketer (4 wins), Coe (2 wins). Run the race 10 times on 10 successive days, though, and I think it goes Coe (5), Rudisha (3), Kipketer (2).
Rudisha set his record on his 3rd 800 in 4 days with no pacer.
If they run this race 10 times, David wins 7 times, Wilson wins 3, Coe wins none.
If they run on 10 consecutive days, still no wins for Coe.
Coe couldn’t beat his contemporaries. Coe wasn’t best 800m runner of his era, just the record holder.
Lost 1980 Olympics.
Lost 1982 Olympics.
Lost 1984 Olympics.
Coe was a one hit wonder and most likely wouldn’t medal if you added other people to the race.
I don't recall Rudisha beating 45s. Being within a second of Rudisha over 400 isn't close enough for you?
His PB is 45.50 (45.2 ht).
Exactly, 1 second difference in a 400 isn't almost as fast for me.
If we want to compare apples to apples, Coe’s best open 400 was 46.87.
I couldn’t find an open 400 or relay split from Rudisha after 2010 (when his 800 PB was 1:42.01), but I would be shocked if he wasn’t capable of relay splitting 44.x by 2012 – heck, probably even by 2010; it is relatively common to see 45.x mid guys splitting 44.x high.
On a 2022 next generation mondo track in super shoes? All three on their very best night (when they set their WRs/pbs)?
I thought it’s universally recognized that on Aug 9th, 2012 the world witnessed the greatest middle distance performance in history. The notion that another human being could have beaten that version of Rudisha over 800m is foolishness. If Kipteker was there to push Rudisha, Rudisha would simply have run faster. No human alive past or present could beat that Rudisha.
Rudisha's best 400 was 45.13. Coe ran 45.7 in a relay. That isn't that big a difference when Coe never seriously competed over the distance, let alone trained for it. This is not to say he would have beaten Rudisha over one lap but that he was in a similar ball-park for basic speed, which means he could easily have kept pace with Rudisha in a 2 lap race, taking his superior endurance into account.
I think we can assume that the way this race plays out is that Rudisha runs from the front, so it comes down to whether Coe and/or Kipketer can pass him on the home stretch. Personally, I think prime Kipketer gets him at the line. Close race. All three are obviously legends. Run the race ten times in a season, though, I think it goes Rudisha (4 wins), Kipketer (4 wins), Coe (2 wins). Run the race 10 times on 10 successive days, though, and I think it goes Coe (5), Rudisha (3), Kipketer (2).
Rudisha set his record on his 3rd 800 in 4 days with no pacer.
If they run this race 10 times, David wins 7 times, Wilson wins 3, Coe wins none.
If they run on 10 consecutive days, still no wins for Coe.
Coe couldn’t beat his contemporaries. Coe wasn’t best 800m runner of his era, just the record holder.
Lost 1980 Olympics.
Lost 1982 Olympics.
Lost 1984 Olympics.
Coe was a one hit wonder and most likely wouldn’t medal if you added other people to the race.
"Just" the record holder - who carved a phenomenal chunk off the previous record and far more than either Kipketer or Rudisha achieved years and even decades later? But you totally blew it when you said the "1982 Olympics". Held where?
Coe is 'underrated' as an 800m runner because people remember him losing to Ovett in Moscow, and then he was never at the same level at 800m after suffering his illness problems in 82/83. He's also the wrong..... for many natural born running Kenyan fans here.
Doesn't alter the fact that Coe in his WR form was at least the equal of Kipketer and Rudisha on their best nights.
Coe is NOT underrated. Coe is overrated as an 800m runner. S. Coe had excellent 400m speed for a 1500m runner, probably top three 400m speed all time for sub-3:32 1500m runners. For elite 800m men, S. Coe's 400m speed was a bit below. Eg. a 48.9 first 400m would have ruined S. Coe; S. Coe would not be as good as others in a race split at 500m 67 or slower.
S. Coe needed a fast even pace. Problem: S. Coe intentionally avoided physical contact. S. Coe didn't race even 50m splits, 1984 Olympics 800m final but he raced closer to even 50m splits than his competitors. S. Coe raced in lane 2 or 3 last 550m or 600m.
Racing against good men, S. Coe lost. James Robinson was a good 800m man but James Robinson appeared to race too slowly for his ability first 600m.
On a 2022 next generation mondo track in super shoes? All three on their very best night (when they set their WRs/pbs)?
I thought it’s universally recognized that on Aug 9th, 2012 the world witnessed the greatest middle distance performance in history. The notion that another human being could have beaten that version of Rudisha over 800m is foolishness. If Kipteker was there to push Rudisha, Rudisha would simply have run faster. No human alive past or present could beat that Rudisha.
It wasn't the greatest middle distance performance in history. Rudisha beat an 18 year-old Amos by only 0.8s. In Rome in '60 Elliott beat his own world record and destroyed the field, beating the second placegetter, Michel Jazy, by an astonishing 2.8secs. It was a greater competitive feat than Rudisha's - as brilliant as his win was. (Jazy was also an arguably better runner than Amos. He went on to become the world record holder in the mile and 2 miles).
Rudisha was only 0.8 secs faster than Coe's record, over 3 decades later and on a superior track. Only a fool would suggest that Coe would not have been able to match Rudisha if they had competed in the same era in the same conditions.
I am not sure why some of you are going on and on about who runs what for 400m or even 1500m. I guess I had interpreted the OP as envisioning an 800m race. In an 800m race by far the most important factor is how well the 3 are able to run 800m. It appears that Coe finishes 3rd. Rudisha and Kipketer are more difficult to separate. It could go either way for 1st and 2nd, although it is difficult to pick against the guy who ran under 1:41 in an Olympic Final without a pacemaker and with a gold medal on the line.
45.7 relay is worth about 46.5, within striking distance of his 46.87 flat 400m pr, and about one and a half seconds behind Rudisha's time, set in Australia probably in March or April, nowhere near his likely mid- to low-44 shape (which Amos had in a relay later on) for London 2012. I grant that Coe's relay split actually does not capture his true 400m ability at that time because he stumbled--but he also drafted.
We can. They never raced each other or competed in the same era.
You are biased toward the old non-African guard. You show it in almost every post when it is germane. You love Snell, Walker, Coe and all your “pristine” heroes. You are not worth listening to when your heroes are involved. You are blind to this even after I attempt to lift the veil of ignorance from your eyes.
As usual, your ignorance is showing. Coe was not within a second of Rudisha over 400m.
Yes, he was. That is your ignorance. He ran 45.7 in a relay. Rudisha's best was 45.13.
No he wasn't. That is your ignorance. You are not even aware of the difference between a 400m run from the blocks and a relay time. Educate yourself. Being a narcissist doesn't mean you are always right, even if you want to believe so.
I was wondering if anyone had any idea about what constitutes a realistic conversion of 400m relay splits into their worth for an individual 400m. I've read some say between 0.5 and 1.0 secs!? But when I've seen some races th...
I am not sure why some of you are going on and on about who runs what for 400m or even 1500m. I guess I had interpreted the OP as envisioning an 800m race. In an 800m race by far the most important factor is how well the 3 are able to run 800m. It appears that Coe finishes 3rd. Rudisha and Kipketer are more difficult to separate. It could go either way for 1st and 2nd, although it is difficult to pick against the guy who ran under 1:41 in an Olympic Final without a pacemaker and with a gold medal on the line.
Yet despite there being over 30 years distance between Coe and Rudisha and the Kenyan great having the further advantage of a more modern track results in him being only 0.8sec faster. Put either of them in a time machine and your confident result could be reversed. There is no way Rudisha runs 1.40.9 in 1981 or Coe is not better in 2012 than he was in 1981.