I ran in college. Decent D1 runner. The FB players were openly taking steroids. Back then I didn't know anything about doping in track but if I had been exposed or someone would have approached me I am about 90% sure that I and my teammates would have doped. Maybe 100%? So.. that's my baseline on whether athletes dope
Most fans don't want to think that. The sports media also won't go there. It would expose modern elite sport as a mirage.
Shelby jaded me. Now I think so many more people are doping than I used to.
any out of the ordinary progression or huge gain from seemingly no where is a cause for suspicion now. So I look at tons of athletes and assumed they are doped.
An official thread for your dicussions about doping. Enough littering every other thread and taking away the joy of sports.
The question might be rephrased: how can we be confident anyone isn't doping?
A few uncomfortable facts:
- As far back as 1996 it was estimated that up to 80% of participants at Atlanta would be doped. (There was also no test for EPO then, so it would have been present in running).
- Only 1-2% of tests produce a positive. Confidential athlete surveys have proven that doping far exceeds the numbers caught. Ergo, most dopers are not caught. In the words of a former WADA head, "only the dumb and the careless are caught".
- In the words of another former WADA head, David Howman, "doping is more sophisticated than antidoping". Hence, doping remains ahead of antidoping.
- It is found in all sports. According to antidoping expert Renee Ann Shirley, "doping is present in all sports in all countries at elite levels, with the frequent collusion of sports governance bodies". It has been found in championship darts, curling and chess.
- Doping is not confined to elites and professionals. It is known to be present in schools and colleges.
- The question every athlete is faced with today is whether they are prepared to use everything available to them to succeed - which, for many, includes doping. They will know that many of their competitors will dope. In some countries we have seen that doping is about 99% at the top - as in Russia, where it is state-sponsored. How many athletes are prepared to lose to those they believe are dopers?
Since those are just some of the factors that indicate the likely prevalence of doping today, the question remains - how confident can you be that any athlete (and especially your favorite) isn't?
I know wrestling is fake, so I don't watch it, because I like real sports.
I don't know why you'd watch a sport where you assume everyone is cheating.
You appear to be a little confused, to add to your suffering.
I am confused as to why you post probably 20 times a day and yet you are always complaining about this site and the way it is moderated and you are a broken record saying so and so is doping, you offer your ad hominem attacks with no wit, and you are a visitor here. Nobody else would tolerate you with your insolence and ignorance when you offer so little of substance.
I don't know about "everyone," but I have to admit that I wouldn't be able to read most of the cr*p on these boards without some kind of chemical assistance.
When a white American gets caught then yes everyone is doping. When a dark skinned gets caught than only his/ her country"s other dark skins are doping.
You appear to be a little confused, to add to your suffering.
I am confused as to why you post probably 20 times a day and yet you are always complaining about this site and the way it is moderated and you are a broken record saying so and so is doping, you offer your ad hominem attacks with no wit, and you are a visitor here. Nobody else would tolerate you with your insolence and ignorance when you offer so little of substance.
I see your confusion still adds to your suffering.
The question might be rephrased: how can we be confident anyone isn't doping?
A few uncomfortable facts:
- As far back as 1996 it was estimated that up to 80% of participants at Atlanta would be doped. (There was also no test for EPO then, so it would have been present in running).
- Only 1-2% of tests produce a positive. Confidential athlete surveys have proven that doping far exceeds the numbers caught. Ergo, most dopers are not caught. In the words of a former WADA head, "only the dumb and the careless are caught".
- In the words of another former WADA head, David Howman, "doping is more sophisticated than antidoping". Hence, doping remains ahead of antidoping.
- It is found in all sports. According to antidoping expert Renee Ann Shirley, "doping is present in all sports in all countries at elite levels, with the frequent collusion of sports governance bodies". It has been found in championship darts, curling and chess.
- Doping is not confined to elites and professionals. It is known to be present in schools and colleges.
- The question every athlete is faced with today is whether they are prepared to use everything available to them to succeed - which, for many, includes doping. They will know that many of their competitors will dope. In some countries we have seen that doping is about 99% at the top - as in Russia, where it is state-sponsored. How many athletes are prepared to lose to those they believe are dopers?
Since those are just some of the factors that indicate the likely prevalence of doping today, the question remains - how confident can you be that any athlete (and especially your favorite) isn't?
I know wrestling is fake, so I don't watch it, because I like real sports.
I don't know why you'd watch a sport where you assume everyone is cheating.
I don't care about pro sports now. I might sometimes watch it but I am largely indifferent to the outcome. That's what doping has done. I am only really interested in my own humble recreational efforts and those of my friends. But a lot of fans live vicariously through their heroes.
Shelby jaded me. Now I think so many more people are doping than I used to.
any out of the ordinary progression or huge gain from seemingly no where is a cause for suspicion now. So I look at tons of athletes and assumed they are doped.
The irony in this discussion is that the passion that many fans have in maintaining their sports heroes are clean is but a fraction of the same passion those said heroes exercise to do whatever it takes to succeed - which nowadays will likely include doping. Both are driven by a dream.
I'm older, been running 50+ years, and my hips are done, so I've taken to biking. While biking, I've been listening to the "Wheelmen" audiobook, as well as Tyler Hamilton's book. Being older, I've watched the marathon WR drop from 2;07 to 2:01. So I've come to think that most (every) elite is doping - or they wouldn't be able to compete at that level. That being said, if widespread doping means "evening the playing field", there is still much more involved in being a champion. Now, when I watch Lance Armstrong in past Tours, I can see that he was a freaking animal of a competitor and that doping certainly didn't make winning "easy" - since other competitors were doing the same thing. I'm still a huge running fan and see the extreme effort runners are making - not to mention the strain of exhaustive training. I think competitors have figured out how to micro-dope as much as possible and not get caught. No, it doesn't ruin the sport for me. Whether doped or not, any runner is going to push a race to the absolute max (and, in the best races, beyond the max).
I'm older, been running 50+ years, and my hips are done, so I've taken to biking. While biking, I've been listening to the "Wheelmen" audiobook, as well as Tyler Hamilton's book. Being older, I've watched the marathon WR drop from 2;07 to 2:01. So I've come to think that most (every) elite is doping - or they wouldn't be able to compete at that level. That being said, if widespread doping means "evening the playing field", there is still much more involved in being a champion. Now, when I watch Lance Armstrong in past Tours, I can see that he was a freaking animal of a competitor and that doping certainly didn't make winning "easy" - since other competitors were doing the same thing. I'm still a huge running fan and see the extreme effort runners are making - not to mention the strain of exhaustive training. I think competitors have figured out how to micro-dope as much as possible and not get caught. No, it doesn't ruin the sport for me. Whether doped or not, any runner is going to push a race to the absolute max (and, in the best races, beyond the max).
Doping does make it easier though.
Just like it’s easier to race when you are in shape than out of shape.
I had to take prednisone for a while (which is considered a very low level ped), and it was beyond eye opening. I would see my heart rate and pace flying high and I would know I was working hard, but the struggle to keep push just wasn’t there. It was effortless in comparison.
I wouldn't say EVERYONE is doping, but everyone good is doping.
Look at the top 10 mens 100m times. 9 of them confirmed doping, and the top guy (Bolt), producing a positive test would ruin the sport so him being caught was never in the interest of the sport.
So 90%+ confirmed for just one event, but we should assume all the other track events are clean?
There very likely hasn't been a clean track medal in two generations.
Lance Armstrong, who participates in a sport that's culturally similar to distance running, was a vigilant anti-doper. We all know how that turned out....
Cycling has an institutional doping problem but endurance running doesnt? Lol!
How many more people need to be caught for some of you to pull your head out of the sand?
And then some middling pro will come on here and talk about how he never dopes, and as far as he's concerned his competition isn't. That's why you are not winning competitions/medals.
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