Jakob is way out as number 1. Then I'd have Kiplimo and Cheptegei, maybe add Krop. Then there's a massive group who can medal on the right day if they take their chance, and Fisher is in that group. I don't think he can ever win gold over either 5 or 10k as I don't think he can close the last km in 2:23-2:25 even off a slow pace, and ultimately, that's what it takes to win a championship race. But he can still pick up a podium place. I think he'll have one global medal by the end of 2024 (fitness permitting). Just being in that elite group, and assuming some others won't make their national teams or won't be fit or 100%, odds are that he should get one of the next 12 global medals that are available.
This the best analysis in this thread. Fisher is good...really good...and has the potential to achieve even more, but let's not get too crazy here after this run.
If we’re compiling a T&F News style top-10 ranking, based strictly on 3k and 5k results from the 2022 track season, then I don’t think Cheptegei even makes the top 10.
You're not wrong, but I think people are still rating him highly because of the Olympic gold just a year ago. He still won the 10k this year, and the Worlds 5k final was not run in a way that suits his strengths. A lot can change in a year, though, so maybe we shouldn't be giving him a free pass, even with his incredible credentials.
Yes, no argument that he should be rated more highly than he’d appear given that kind of ranking criteria.
In terms of a year end 3k/5k ranking T&F News style, here’s what I’m thinking:
1. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 2. Jacob Krop 3. Grant Fisher 4. Nicholas Kimeli 5. Jacob Kiplimo 6. Berihu Aregawi 7. Dominic Lobalu 8. Oscar Chelimo 9. Thierry Ndikumwenayo 10. Selemon Barega
Ten more (alphabetical) Mo Ahmed Telahun Haile Bekele Joshua Cheptegei Daniel Ebenyo Muktar Edris Luis Grijalva
Mohamed Katir Yomif Kejelcha Stewart McSweyn Samuel Tefera
It’s a very challenging list to compile with any confidence. I am pretty sure of my top-5, but not so much the order of 2-5. Kiplimo was very impressive in the Commonwealth Games 5k, but is limited by only having 2 results at 3k/5k on the season (the other being a 7:29 surprise loss to Lobalu). Kimeli beat Krop in that 12:45-46 Rome DL, the CG 5k and the Monaco 3k, but lost to him in the WC final and lost his WL to him yesterday. Fisher has beaten Kimeli all 3 times they’ve raced this season, but lost 2/3 to Krop including at the WCs.
It only gets more complicated as you descend the list. For one, I’m uncomfortable about Fisher being #3 while Ahmed’s not listed top 10.
You're not wrong, but I think people are still rating him highly because of the Olympic gold just a year ago. He still won the 10k this year, and the Worlds 5k final was not run in a way that suits his strengths. A lot can change in a year, though, so maybe we shouldn't be giving him a free pass, even with his incredible credentials.
Yes, no argument that he should be rated more highly than he’d appear given that kind of ranking criteria.
In terms of a year end 3k/5k ranking T&F News style, here’s what I’m thinking:
1. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 2. Jacob Krop 3. Grant Fisher 4. Nicholas Kimeli 5. Jacob Kiplimo 6. Berihu Aregawi 7. Dominic Lobalu 8. Oscar Chelimo 9. Thierry Ndikumwenayo 10. Selemon Barega
Ten more (alphabetical) Mo Ahmed Telahun Haile Bekele Joshua Cheptegei Daniel Ebenyo Muktar Edris Luis Grijalva
Mohamed Katir Yomif Kejelcha Stewart McSweyn Samuel Tefera
It’s a very challenging list to compile with any confidence. I am pretty sure of my top-5, but not so much the order of 2-5. Kiplimo was very impressive in the Commonwealth Games 5k, but is limited by only having 2 results at 3k/5k on the season (the other being a 7:29 surprise loss to Lobalu). Kimeli beat Krop in that 12:45-46 Rome DL, the CG 5k and the Monaco 3k, but lost to him in the WC final and lost his WL to him yesterday. Fisher has beaten Kimeli all 3 times they’ve raced this season, but lost 2/3 to Krop including at the WCs.
It only gets more complicated as you descend the list. For one, I’m uncomfortable about Fisher being #3 while Ahmed’s not listed top 10.
I didn’t realize that Krop was one year younger than Jakob and that he ran 13:03 when he was 18.
Yes, no argument that he should be rated more highly than he’d appear given that kind of ranking criteria.
In terms of a year end 3k/5k ranking T&F News style, here’s what I’m thinking:
1. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 2. Jacob Krop 3. Grant Fisher 4. Nicholas Kimeli 5. Jacob Kiplimo 6. Berihu Aregawi 7. Dominic Lobalu 8. Oscar Chelimo 9. Thierry Ndikumwenayo 10. Selemon Barega
Ten more (alphabetical) Mo Ahmed Telahun Haile Bekele Joshua Cheptegei Daniel Ebenyo Muktar Edris Luis Grijalva
Mohamed Katir Yomif Kejelcha Stewart McSweyn Samuel Tefera
It’s a very challenging list to compile with any confidence. I am pretty sure of my top-5, but not so much the order of 2-5. Kiplimo was very impressive in the Commonwealth Games 5k, but is limited by only having 2 results at 3k/5k on the season (the other being a 7:29 surprise loss to Lobalu). Kimeli beat Krop in that 12:45-46 Rome DL, the CG 5k and the Monaco 3k, but lost to him in the WC final and lost his WL to him yesterday. Fisher has beaten Kimeli all 3 times they’ve raced this season, but lost 2/3 to Krop including at the WCs.
It only gets more complicated as you descend the list. For one, I’m uncomfortable about Fisher being #3 while Ahmed’s not listed top 10.
I didn’t realize that Krop was one year younger than Jakob and that he ran 13:03 when he was 18.
Makes Fisher look like an old guy
Interestingly, Fisher is the second oldest of that top-10, with only Ndikumwenayo older by 4 weeks. Contextually he does look like an old guy.
Also, am I the only one who didn’t know that Oscar Chelimo is Jacob Kiplimo’s younger brother? Maybe I read that at some point, but it didn’t stick since Oscar was not a WC bronze medalist yet.
Le Norvégien Jakob Ingebrigtsen a remporté le 5000 m masculin après avoir récolté l'argent au 1500 m. Le Canadien Mohammed Ahmed prend le 5e rang.#worldchamp...
You're not wrong, but I think people are still rating him highly because of the Olympic gold just a year ago. He still won the 10k this year, and the Worlds 5k final was not run in a way that suits his strengths. A lot can change in a year, though, so maybe we shouldn't be giving him a free pass, even with his incredible credentials.
Yes, no argument that he should be rated more highly than he’d appear given that kind of ranking criteria.
In terms of a year end 3k/5k ranking T&F News style, here’s what I’m thinking:
1. Jakob Ingebrigtsen 2. Jacob Krop 3. Grant Fisher 4. Nicholas Kimeli 5. Jacob Kiplimo 6. Berihu Aregawi 7. Dominic Lobalu 8. Oscar Chelimo 9. Thierry Ndikumwenayo 10. Selemon Barega
Ten more (alphabetical) Mo Ahmed Telahun Haile Bekele Joshua Cheptegei Daniel Ebenyo Muktar Edris Luis Grijalva
Mohamed Katir Yomif Kejelcha Stewart McSweyn Samuel Tefera
It’s a very challenging list to compile with any confidence. I am pretty sure of my top-5, but not so much the order of 2-5. Kiplimo was very impressive in the Commonwealth Games 5k, but is limited by only having 2 results at 3k/5k on the season (the other being a 7:29 surprise loss to Lobalu). Kimeli beat Krop in that 12:45-46 Rome DL, the CG 5k and the Monaco 3k, but lost to him in the WC final and lost his WL to him yesterday. Fisher has beaten Kimeli all 3 times they’ve raced this season, but lost 2/3 to Krop including at the WCs.
It only gets more complicated as you descend the list. For one, I’m uncomfortable about Fisher being #3 while Ahmed’s not listed top 10.
You definitely have the right guys in your top 5, though I’m not sure about the order of 3-5. Ingebrigtsen and Krop are the clear 1 and 2 for me, and I think all of the other guys have a good argument for 3rd. I’d probably put Kimeli at 3 given his win in Rome and silver at Comm Games (both over Krop), then Fisher at 4 and Kiplimo at 5.
It feels odd ranking Fisher behind Kimeli considering he is 3-0 against him this season, but head-to-head isn’t everything in this sort of ranking. Kiplimo is in 5th only because of how dominant he looked in Birmingham taking down the two Kenyans. With more races he’d probably be higher.
Should be clear now that after the WC mishaps, Fisher is the 3rd best 5000 runner on the planet. There is no doubt, correct?
Dude, it's one season. Next year there may by 5 or 6 Kenyans running quicker.
More like 1 race .. seriously get the fastest 10 guys to race and I am not sure that you are getting consistant results. Who knows how JIbruns in a 12:40 race. How many of the 12:55 crowd are like fisher and just need that 1 good race.
Times: He has the 12th best time all times, however Kipkorir, Krop set their (better) times also in 2022. Cheptegei set his world record in 2020, for Fisher being third he has to rank over Cheptegei despite him having the WR. This is debatable, however he is clearly third looking at the times from this year.
Medals/placements: He has a 6th from the world championship, 1st from USATF champs, 2nd from the diamond league meet in Brussels.
Verdict:
He has a strong time and is world #3 in time this year. But a 6th at worlds and 2nd in one single diamond league meet is not enough to be a "clear" 3rd best in the world. I would say he is a great contender for that, but that need to be semented by convincing placements in more meets and/or worlds. You can be world 3 all you want, but as long as you end up 6th in the world championship, you are not clear 3rd best. Look forward to more international meets from Fisher next year!
Fisher also raced in Monaco a few weeks back finishing third, setting an AR and beating Krop.
It has been a long season for him and others.
Safe to say, one race to the next, most of the top guys would reshuffle. This year perhaps not the Norwegian (he is clearly number one) but anyone on any given day is beatable.
Supper excited to have an American distance runner in the conversation of the worlds top five. It has been a long time and shouldn’t be taken lightly in what are distances dominated by East Africans.
Last year Fisher went to Europe after the Olympics; he was clearly tired and shut it down. This year he had more in the tank and has performed very well. Next year I believe he will have an even better year.
I think 3-6 are close on my list and Kimeli Kipkorir, Fisher and Aregawi all are Q’ed for Zurich do that could be a tiebreaker. 1 and 2 feel solidified to me. Kiplimo is 14th ranked dk if he’d jump in if offered a spot.
The way Grant Fisher has raced in championship meets in 2021 & 2022, he appears to be racing for bronze. He's in his prime. Not really on honorable tactic for a 25 year old in his prime but his choice. Racing for bronze means racing in (4 to 7) place from 900m to go to 300m to go. A lot of elbows and getting a foot stepped on racing in 4th through 7th place. Since it is obvious what G. Fisher is doing, posters whining about G. Fisher getting elbowed and getting his foot stepped on are not seeing G. Fisher's goal. G. Fisher wants to race in the middle of that humanity. G. Fisher believes he will emerge a bronze medalist being in the middle of other men with 900m to go. Night before 5000m W.C. final, I gave G. Fisher a blue print to win. He chose the other tactic. G. Fisher knows if one races to win in races 800m and longer, one also risks finishing 4th or worse. I don't want to ever read again from posters complaining about G. Fisher getting elbowed, G. Fisher getting his foot stepped on. He has made that choice. To the gist of O.P.'s point: If G. Fisher continues in championship races racing for bronze, G. Fisher may do just that, earn a bronze. If G. Fisher wants to be in the group with Ian Stewart, Klaus Peter Hildenbrand and Kaarlo Maanika, men who raced for bronze, he may join them.
The way Grant Fisher has raced in championship meets in 2021 & 2022, he appears to be racing for bronze. He's in his prime. Not really on honorable tactic for a 25 year old in his prime but his choice. Racing for bronze means racing in (4 to 7) place from 900m to go to 300m to go. A lot of elbows and getting a foot stepped on racing in 4th through 7th place. Since it is obvious what G. Fisher is doing, posters whining about G. Fisher getting elbowed and getting his foot stepped on are not seeing G. Fisher's goal. G. Fisher wants to race in the middle of that humanity. G. Fisher believes he will emerge a bronze medalist being in the middle of other men with 900m to go. Night before 5000m W.C. final, I gave G. Fisher a blue print to win. He chose the other tactic. G. Fisher knows if one races to win in races 800m and longer, one also risks finishing 4th or worse. I don't want to ever read again from posters complaining about G. Fisher getting elbowed, G. Fisher getting his foot stepped on. He has made that choice. To the gist of O.P.'s point: If G. Fisher continues in championship races racing for bronze, G. Fisher may do just that, earn a bronze. If G. Fisher wants to be in the group with Ian Stewart, Klaus Peter Hildenbrand and Kaarlo Maanika, men who raced for bronze, he may join them.
You’re a fool. You “gave Grant Fisher a blueprint to win.” What an inflated ego you must have. Your “blueprint to win” was saying that he should run the penultimate lap in sub-59 seconds. What you fail to acknowledge is that Fisher DID run the penultimate lap under 59 seconds, but this wasn’t going to win him the race.
You say Fisher was racing for bronze and compare him with Ian Stewart in 1972. Stewart did not go with the leaders and was able to catch Prefontaine before the line. Fisher followed Ingebrigtsen as closely as he could, in the top-3 throughout most of the last lap—and it could easily be argued that he was racing with a mind to outkick Ingebrigtsen.
Fisher raced boldly and intelligently until he stepped on the rail. He was not going to beat Ingebrigtsen no matter what he did. But go ahead, keep on thinking he should have just followed the advice of “600yd/600m man” for a better result.
Not seeing it this way at all. In the 5,000 he was high up in the mix but his blunder was hugging the inside with Krop in position to squeeze him (inadvertently or not). Just too risky. Better to go slightly wide and trust your finish to overcome an extra half meter. In the 10,000 he was perhaps a bit too passive but let’s face it he didn’t gain much if anything the last 100. The top 3 were just better even with Mburu and Kiplimo running some extra distance.
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