Go away, you know zilch about running. How ignorant are you or do you just get off getting responses to your moronic threads?
I know more than you do that's for sure.
Did you just watch the same race I did? They ran a 2:40 opening 800m. And the Americans were at the back. WHY??????
And then when the pace dropped to 70/lap they didn't answer that either.
Why be in 10th when you can be in 4th going the same pace.
Africans run a 60 second last lap. Cranny ran like a 75.
Garbage race.
Lol as you don't know more than me:):):) I've run 29:02 and I'd call you extremely stupid with anything related to running at the elite level let alone the hobby jogging that you do 🤣
i was hoping for more from the americans, but they are just outclassed. schweizer doesnt look like she will ever come close to replicating her 1426 PR. on paper it seemed like cranny couldve finished at least around the lead pack, but they really wound up the pace after that slow start and i dont think many could handle that.
If you're going to barely race in the spring or do indoors because you're "focused on world's", you better be in medal contention when you get to worlds. Obviously not the case here. As a fan, I'd much rather see Cranny, Schweitzer, etc. race in more meets if it means getting like 11th place instead of like 9th place.
Well said, this is true for all american middle and long distance. Why duck out from indoors WC and races in the spring? When you are a B tier athlete these meets are a great place to shine. You got to take the meets where you can get a good placement. I expect americans to teare it up at DL after worlds as so many athletes will have focused on europeans and commonwealth games.
Lol as you don't know more than me:):):) I've run 29:02 and I'd call you extremely stupid with anything related to running at the elite level let alone the hobby jogging that you do 🤣
29:02 isn’t elite even at the collegiate level, let alone pro level . Go to bed, you have no more experience running in elite races as the rest of us.
The American women are a bit “big” compared to the Africans, who are legit skin and bones. A truly world class athlete should not look like someone I would see at LA Fitness on a random Tuesday. For example, Fred Kerley looks like an absolute freak of nature - true super human - not so with our distance women.
yay another female body shaming post. That aside, your argument is without merit because what happens is when American women, who do not have the natural body type of the Africans who are naturally smaller and therefore healthy at a lower weight, try to overtrain and diet themselves down to a comparable weight, injuries and RED-S abound. We saw that with Elise (RED-S in college and then again this year so did not even contest the USA 10,000), Karissa (Haglund surgery this year, raced back to race 10,000. 5,000, 1500 and stepped off in this race with apparent injury), and Emily Infeld (more injuries than anyone should have to go through including hip surgery in 2018, this race was her first global final since that surgery).
You have to run your own race. The opportunity will be there if you're prepared for it.
I could not agree more. It's all about being prepared. The difference between the Americans in the 5 tonight and Wightman is not simply that he "stuck his nose in it," or that he didn't "pack it in." The difference is that after he got thrashed in Tokyo last year, he sat down with his coach and brutally assessed his fitness deficits. He then designed and executed a training program aimed to eleminate those deficits. He continued to tweak his preparation during the run up to Eugene as he raced and learned about his relative fitness.
From what we've herad, this sort of targetted training is not the BTC way.
Another poster who thinks you can magically will yourself to victory by just trying harder.
I didn't say any of them should have won a medal.
But I think if you have USA across your chest you better go down with a fight.
Yet when Emma Coburn did just that, the board has a 5 page thread "Is Emma done?" Impossible for the athletes to make the right decision according to the Letsrun folks. Criticism either way.
Agree with you on almost everything, but I do think Schweizer will PR again. She just got an incredible PR in the 10k. So I think another 5k PR is likely...just not a few days after a massive 10k pr.
It's amazing how utterly normal the BTC runners are when there is known drug testing and they can't recover from previous races. Their legs looked toast today, and Schweizer dropped out injured. It's because their bodies are not recovering, and that's because their bodies are not used to recovering without help.
Go away, you know zilch about running. How ignorant are you or do you just get off getting responses to your moronic threads?
I have to say I agree with the OP. This is not much different from what they did in Tokyo which they themselves said they would not do again. I was not expecting a medal but you can't lose contact with the lead pack at a pace you have run several times before. The biggest problem is our athletes in that race don't race that level of competition enough (period) They basically spend all of their time practicing and racing against each other.
The Africans are simply better. Cranny looked gassed on the last lap. No shortage of effort on her part.
You are missing the gist of O.P.'s thread or you are intentionally doing a scope shift.
O.P. addressed the 1st 800m. Let's fast forward to 3000m mark. G. Tsegay, ETH & L. Gidey, ETH split 3K in 9:02.79 & 9:03.02. K. Schweizer, USA & Elise Cranny, USA split 3K in 7th & 8th place in 9:03.95 & 9:04.16.
3500m, only 1500m to go: L. Gidey, ETH & G. Tsegay, ETH split 3500m in 10:31.62 & 10:31.70. K. Schweizer, USA & Elise Cranny, USA split 3500m in 7th & 8th place in 10:32.68 & 10:32.84.
4K, 1K to go: L. Gidey, ETH, 12:00.69 & G. Tsegay, ETH, 12:00.84. K. Schweizer, USA, 7th place, 12:01.71 & Elise Cranny, USA, 9th place, 12:02.11.
Elise Cranny was less than one second off the pace to 4300m mark. L. Gidey, ETH, 12:55.22 & G. Tsegay, ETH, 12:55.27. Elise Cranny was 12:56.15 at 4300m in 8th place.
This is the point were you are starting your argument, from 4400m mark. O.P. is talking about first 4300m. L. Gidey, ETH & G. Tsegay, ETH split 4300m mark at 72.11x per lap pace. Elise Cranny split 4300m at 72.2 per lap pace.
On this site, way before I ever posted a comment here, so many posters have gotten down on Steve Prefontaine for aggressively taking the lead a few times over the final 1600m of 1972 Olympics 5000m final, I believe U.S. elite 5000m runners and their coaches usually are more cautious post Steve P. over the last 3 laps of Olympic and W.C. 5000m finals.
I am not getting down on the ladies today. I am basically talking to Grant Fisher. Don't be afraid to go for it. Go for it means race from the front. Go for it means taking the lead over the last 1000m if not on near world record pace.
Racing the top women more often would help, but how much? Ultimately, the medallists are just a different class over any pace. The question now is what will the BTC coaches do to change things for the women? What they're doing now isn't working. They dominate the US trials and then flop at the championships. Things are going ok for the men with Fisher and Ahmed competitive, but the women look like they need something different to Schumacher's canned programme
Agree with you on almost everything, but I do think Schweizer will PR again. She just got an incredible PR in the 10k. So I think another 5k PR is likely...just not a few days after a massive 10k pr.
Schweizer wouldve been better off not entering 5k.and giving the 4th place at the trials the place in the 5k, give someone else a break. It's a big ask to replicate your best a few days after a big 10k. But I wouldn't expect her to do that for her fellows US athletes.
First off, those saying “Schweizer couldn’t even finish this not that fast race” are being, for lack of a better word, stupid. For one, the last 4k was run at 14:25 pace for the medalists, but that’s almost beside the point—Schweizer tore a muscle in her calf. You may blame Schumacher’s workload if you like, but don’t claim that Schweizer didn’t put forth the effort or didn’t “show up” yesterday.
To the gist of the OP, as has been stated, why would it be any better had the Americans led from the gun? I mean, if Schweizer and Cranny had traded off ~70” laps from the start, the Ethiopians would probably have thought “Oh, they’re trying to run away from us by time-trialing 14:35. How cute is that. Well, works for us—now we don’t have to sweat making it a halfway honest pace.” Infeld would have been ditched by 3k and ultimately been the last place finisher. Cranny would have had nothing left in the last 800 and finished 9th, at best. Schweizer would probably have suffered a calf strain and DNF’d. They were setting themselves up for their best chances of snagging lesser medals or higher placing, but obviously that wasn’t gonna happen yesterday.
This is the bind the US women are in, especially the BTC women. They are trained to be time triallers. Everything they do is designed to accomplish good times in even-paced races with a solid last mile. And they get very good results in TTs.
They then go to championship races where Kenyans and Ethiopians bounce the pace around so much. The sad thing is, I listened to a Curious podcast with Elise Cranny and she even said that was the hardest part of racing in Tokyo - they struggled with the changing pace lap-to-lap. And what have they done about it?
They could maximise their performance by doing as you said and trading off 70-72 second laps. This is what they are set up to do, it's what their training is directed towards. But yes, they would still get beat. They also don't want to lead.
So, that's their predicament: lead the race at a good pace, perform well and lose, or tuck in at the back, get run ragged by a yo-yoing pace and lose in a mediocre time.
Would you rather see the Americans lead at the beginning (like the japanese girl do it in every race), and fade away to the back later ?
Sometimes you have to accept the reality, that the Americans are not in the same class with the Africans. So I don’t care what kind of race they ran, b/c I already knew the fact that they won’t contend for a medal no matter what.
If you're talking about the Japanese girl with the cap on, she got a PB running that way in the 10k and still beat 2 Americans despite being younger, so yeah seems like a better idea.